Sean Sherk (recent photo)

[Killinginthenameof]

he's lost the roid mass....he's a damn rabbit, just eating the dark green schtuff

[Ifightforaliving]

true that. Hell I will use this excuse next time I need some strange and get caught. Uhh well I was contaminated and my dick slipped out and went in and thats how it happened, just like sherk took roids by accident.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by Ifightforaliving

I agree find any pics of him at 155 and he is bigger than that muscle wise. FUCK HE TESTED POSITIVE HE DID IT HE IS GUILTY WHAT MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT

I understand your bias, but have you even followed all the things wrong with the tests?
The test result he had was almost identical to a slew of Olympic positives for Nandrolone

Urine analysis as a method of detecting nandrolone abuse has recently become somewhat controversial, following studies by the University of Aberdeen showing that the metabolite product can also show up in urine in quantities above the upper limit from a combination of high-protein diets utilising the legal nutritional supplement creatine and hard cardiovascular exercise. The reason for this unexpected result has not been determined. Another possible (though unlikely) reason for a false positive result is the consumption of beef from cattle treated with steroids including nandrolone (used in overturning the verdict against the bobsleigh racer, Lenny Paul). Heavy consumption of the essential amino acid lysine (as indicated in the treatment of cold sores) has also shown false positives in some and was cited by American Shotputter C.J. Hunter as the reason for his positive test. A final possible cause of incorrect urine test results is the presence of metabolites from other anabolic steroids. As a result of the numerous overturned verdicts, the testing procedure was reviewed by UK Sport [1] in 2000.

Also, one of the other major issues would be that there were severe flaws with the testing procedures. The 3 previous tests before Sherk's also tested positive. The machine was not checked for errors, and the vials were re-used, and not tested out to make sure there was no remaining residue from any of the prior positives.

All of the above, plus the fact that Sherk passed a lie detector test saying that he did not knowingly take steroids. (I realize that lie detectors are not perfect, but they are also not completely worthless. They can be beat, but generally are not)

What I am getting at is that a lot of people are so quick to say very harsh things about Sherk, but there is so much doubt that should be taken into consideration.

Originally Posted by Ifightforaliving

I agree find any pics of him at 155 and he is bigger than that muscle wise. FUCK HE TESTED POSITIVE HE DID IT HE IS GUILTY WHAT MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT

Sure, here are some pictures for consideration

Looks about the same to me



Looks about the same to me




Looks about the same to me



Looks bigger because he is at 170. But note the difference between this picture and the one where he is flexing.

The one with the Sherdog logo on it was taken at 170 before he flexed.

[Palma]

Do you actually believe the Bullshit you spew or is that just so you can win arguments on the internet?

If Sherk wasn't fighting Penn you would be right there with everyone else saying he looks different... but since you are the most biased person on the boards and you can't handle fact that Penn is clearly a better fighter then GSP then you are going to defend Sherk until people are sick of hearing you.

It's also funny how you constantly bash Couture for being dishonorable for not fighting two fights but it's not dishonorable for Sherk to cheat with performance enhancing drugs.

[kc56]

First off,

Originally Posted by Palma

you can't handle fact that Penn is clearly a better fighter then GSP

No he's not. Get over it.

Originally Posted by Palma

Do you actually believe the Bullshit you spew or is that just so you can win arguments on the internet?

If Sherk wasn't fighting Penn you would be right there with everyone else saying he looks different... but since you are the most biased person on the boards and you can't handle fact that Penn is clearly a better fighter then GSP then you are going to defend Sherk until people are sick of hearing you.

It's also funny how you constantly bash Couture for being dishonorable for not fighting two fights but it's not dishonorable for Sherk to cheat with performance enhancing drugs.

No. Actually, even if Sherk was fighting GSP I would say that I think Sherk deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Now you are the one mixing up arguments. Do I think Penn is a better than Sherk? Absolutely. What I have been saying is that Sherk deserves the benefit of the doubt.

As far as you combating my argument which was me making points with "you don't like Penn, so you are biased" blah blah blah.... I expect better from you.

I pointed out that one pic was taken while he is flexing at a weigh in for 170 and taken at a upward angle. The other pic is taken while he is just standing there after working out and having to make 155. There is also a difference in lighting. But you don't want to hear that do you? Palma, I was the one that asked what kind of shape Sherk would come in for the fight. One picture taken under the perfect circumstances to make Sherk look small is not enough to convince me.

Also, I posted the following before Penn even fought for the title back on 7-21-07. How am I changing my tune to discredit BJ?

Originally Posted by kc56

A couple of things to consider...

First, There was an article posted here about there being 43 false positives at an athletic competition for the same thing that were reversed. It was contributed to by supplements and electrolyte drinks.

Saying that both samples tested positive is only saying that there wasnt contamination or a mix up. If both samples were taken when he had elevated levels due to his naturally high level, supplements, and sports drinks, it could sure add up, and both samples would test positive.

That steroid stays in your body forever, so if this is just a spiking false positive and he takes another test now, it should come back ok. If he really did juice, it would still be too high.

I guess I could see the shoulder rehab thing,
but I'm not ready to condemn Sherk just yet....

Seems like I have kept the same stance for almost a year. The only thing I have added was the cross-contamination point (I didn't know about that on the post from last year)

Now to try to illustrate my point, I posted a bunch of other pictures and made an argument using facts that had nothing to do with BJ Penn.

Originally Posted by kc56

BJ better be in tip top condition. This should be a great example of superior skill and ability overcoming superior strength and conditioning.

I say should because as we all know not everything in MMA goes like it should every time.

Here is another example of me giving Penn credit for being a better fighter than Sherk.

I don't hate Penn the way you think I do. He's good.
Just not as good as GSP

[Palma]

Who said you are changing your tune? You've always been full of shit...

And no way can anyone honestly say GSP is a better fighter then Penn... GSP is a better athlete and a better competitor but he is not a better fighter... not only does their fight prove that but every fight they have fought has proved that... If there was no time limits on fights there is no way GSP could beat Penn. You can't lay and pray forever.

As far as Sherk... why should he get the benifit of the doubt? Because he won't admit he cheated? Do you think OJ is innocent as well?

[kc56]

Originally Posted by Palma

Who said you are changing your tune? You've always been full of shit...

If you say so.

Originally Posted by Palma

And no way can anyone honestly say GSP is a better fighter then Penn... GSP is a better athlete and a better competitor but he is not a better fighter...

You are right about 2 out of 3... and that is the first step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Palma

not only does their fight prove that but every fight they have fought has proved that... If there was no time limits on fights there is no way GSP could beat Penn. You can't lay and pray forever.

So wait, let me get this right. The president of the BJ Penn fan club is saying that the odds get better for BJ as the fights go on? I thought that was his one and only weakness and now he fixed it.

Originally Posted by Palma

As far as Sherk... why should he get the benifit of the doubt? Because he won't admit he cheated? Do you think OJ is innocent as well?

I'm glad we can get this back on topic. (Sherk)

How about the fact that he
-Never failed any other drug test.
-Passed a lie detector test.
-Had an almost non-existent level in his system.
-Failed this one test in a manner similar to many other athletes who had their positives overturned and ruled false.
-Pointed out very valid problems with the testing facility and the procedural violations involved in the handling his samples.

Seriously, all Penn and GSP bullshit aside. Do you think Sherk really looks much bigger in the first 3 pictures I posted than the one in question? Also, please take into effect that he is posing for them etc...

[Palma]

Fuck yeah he looks smaller... are you kidding me? He doesn't look smaller then he's ever been to you?

He had twice the Nandrolone level than any normal person should have. It's impossible to have that level of Nandrolone without some sort of enhancement drug. Of course many other athletes have tested at the same level as Nandrolone as Sherk did... people cheat and in case you haven't been paying attention they are finally getting busted and punished for it. In the case of MMA it's only wrong if you admit it.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by Palma

Fuck yeah he looks smaller... are you kidding me? He doesn't look smaller then he's ever been to you?

Honestly? Yeah, he definitely looks smaller from those 2 pictures that were originally posted, which is why I found and posted some pictures of him actually at 155. To me, it looks like he might be a little tiny bit smaller. But show me more than one picture of him now. That is like saying that a girl is hot based off of one picture. It was likely selected because it makes the best case for someone's point, which judging by the captions was their obvious intentions. They found the biggest baddest picture they could of Sherk in another weight class, and the smallest looking picture they could of him, and labeled them with roids and non-roided.

Originally Posted by Palma

He had twice the Nandrolone level than any normal person should have. It's impossible to have that level of Nandrolone without some sort of enhancement drug. Of course many other athletes have tested at the same level as Nandrolone as Sherk did...

It's not impossible. It is semi-common in higher level athletes.

In the body, nandrolone is converted into 19-norandrosterone and it is this compound that drug testing centres look for. The International Olympic Committee have set a limit of two nanograms (0.000 000 002g) per millilitre in urine samples. But a study has since shown that normal people can have a small but significant level in their bodies - 0.000 000 000 6 grams per millilitre of urine. This is awfully close and it is also known that some legal dietary supplements are metabolized quite innocently into 19-norandrosterone. In fact in July 2003, 43 ATP players were exonerated after "positive" nandrolone tests when they all drank a certain electrolyte drink given by official ATP trainers.

Are you not seeing that? Aside from everything else, it has been documented that legal dietary suppliments are metabolized into the same bi-product that they use to detect that particular steroid.

I am sure we will have a better idea come weigh-ins and fight night, but to me, so far, those pictures prove nothing but someones bias.

[somethindarker]

i honestly think that sherk didn't take any steroids. i mean after the fact he still keeps denying that he took them, even when he has nothing to prove. when i was in high school i had to take a steroid test when i had gained 20-25 pounds of muscle during the summer in training and it came out positive. after a week it turned out that the supplements i was taking (zantrex 3, and more i can't remember.) had risen my levels of testosterone. so i know it can happen cuz honestly i didn't take any. btw i'm not biased i'm going for penn but i beleive sherk will put on one hell of show.