Rather see GSP vs. BJ or GSP vs. Silva? Poll

[neonatural45]

Interim Champion vs Champion, same as Serra vs St. Pierre. It wasn't two different weight classes

[kc56]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

Interim Champion vs Champion, same as Serra vs St. Pierre. It wasn't two different weight classes

Right. (some say) It was as a result of Tito ducking Chuck forever. The UFC created a interim title since Tito wasn't defending his belt. They had Chuck and Randy fight for the interim title at 205, winner to challenge Tito to unify the belts.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

He hasn't proved anywhere near dominance in that division, Im not saying that Diego or Gono would beat him BUT they should at least fight before he starts taking on Anderson. Diego is still a top welterweight who will get a title shot by the end of his career, and Gono is a legitimate threat to the title IMO. A champion has never moved up to take on another champion in the UFC and they have had guys like Chuck and Hughes almost completley clear out their divisions, GSP should have to do the same. He hasn't even defended the title yet...... Three title defenses shouldn't give someone the right to move up and challenge for a title there, especially leaving the strongest division the UFC has (170) in the dark to wait for GSP to try his luck with Silva. He has a long way to go before he moves up that is for sure

I agree he has to prove his dominance in the division before contemplating whether to move up and face the champion in a higher weight class. However, with the case of Hughes and Liddell... it was very different. Hughes wanted to move up to mw too but didn't after Rich won the title. Chuck never thought about moving up to HW, so it was nothing to do with the UFC.

Also, in GSP's case, he has beat most of the top ww's even before winning the title. He hasn't even defended the title once but look at the people he has beat: Hughes (2x), Serra, BJ, Karo, Trigg, Kos, Sherk and Heiron. So, I honestly do think he only has 3-4 legitimate contendors left before he can say that he has done what he needs to do in ww.

Remember this is all IF he beats those 3-4 legitimate contendors

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by kc56

It is my stance that a fight between the 2 of them would be spent on the ground and would be determined by if Silva could submit GSP.

Striking Silva >> GSP
Takedowns GSP >> Silva
Takedown D GSP >> Silva
Submissions Silva > GSP
Submission D ?

So why is it so unreasonable that I think that fight would hit the ground and be determined by if Silva could submit GSP? I bet you if Rich gets a 3rd try, he will try to take it to the ground.

GSP has already beaten Karo and Penn. So that leaves Fitch (next), Alves (if he beats Hughes), Diego, and Gono.

I think you are overlooking Silva's strikes from the ground, which doesn't necessarily fall into the GnP catagory. I think it more likely that GSP gets caught in a hold and submits to strikes, ala Lutter.

I hope you weren't saying the GSP/Penn fight was so decisive it doesn't need to be repeated before GSP moves up.

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

Fitch, Alves and Penn I can agree with but Diego, Gono and Karo? Gono is nowhere near the ww title picture, karo has been beaten by GSP already convincingly and Diego is out of the title picture and there's no way diego could get GSP down. GSP would maul him on the feet.

GSP has to beat all the legitimate contendors left like Fitch, Alves and BJ (if he moves up). He doesn't need to beat every single fighter in the ww division before deciding to move up.

I think the WW division is a much closer horserace than MW. Right now, there are two legitimate challenges to Anderson, Okami and Almieda. Bisping could make a stab with a couple of big wins in a row, Wandi if he drops.

GSP has a lot more to contend with. Fitch, obviously, and Alves if he beats Hughes; but I'd keep Gono in contention with even one big win. If Swick dominates Davis, he's got to be in the mix. And Koscheck and Diego aren't far down the ladder.

I just think the skill set that seperates Anderson from the rest of the MW's is much farther than the set that seperates GSP from the pack.

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

Also, in GSP's case, he has beat most of the top ww's even before winning the title. He hasn't even defended the title once but look at the people he has beat: Hughes (2x), Serra, BJ, Karo, Trigg, Kos, Sherk and Heiron. So, I honestly do think he only has 3-4 legitimate contendors left before he can say that he has done what he needs to do in ww.

Remember this is all IF he beats those 3-4 legitimate contendors

I can think of four or five fights that should happen at WW before he moves...if he's still champion.

I also think it's funny how people include Heiron in that list. Certainly, GSP dominated him, but Heiron from three years ago isn't the same guy who is fighting in IFL today. I'm not saying Jay would knock Georges out, but he'd do far better than he did...with the possible exception of Koscheck, he's done more to fix holes in his game than anyone since GSP beat them. Koscheck is a question mark still, but I'd still like to see a rematch before GSP moves up in weight.

rh

[kc56]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I think you are overlooking Silva's strikes from the ground, which doesn't necessarily fall into the GnP catagory. I think it more likely that GSP gets caught in a hold and submits to strikes, ala Lutter.

Addressed on another thread, but what I was saying was that I believe that fight would be settled on the ground.

Originally Posted by rivethead

I hope you weren't saying the GSP/Penn fight was so decisive it doesn't need to be repeated before GSP moves up.

Not saying it was SO decisive, (that fight was VERY close) but GSP won and I feel that was the right decision. However, I don't know that GSP needs to move down (we all know he could never make 155) to prove anything. I think it would most likely depend on the state of the 3 divisions as far as any of those 3 fighting outside of their weight. I personally don't think Georges should fight outside of WW at all. I thought we were just speculating how those fights COULD go.

Originally Posted by rivethead

I think the WW division is a much closer horserace than MW. Right now, there are two legitimate challenges to Anderson, Okami and Almieda. Bisping could make a stab with a couple of big wins in a row, Wandi if he drops.

I agree 100%

Originally Posted by rivethead

GSP has a lot more to contend with. Fitch, obviously, and Alves if he beats Hughes; but I'd keep Gono in contention with even one big win. If Swick dominates Davis, he's got to be in the mix. And Koscheck and Diego aren't far down the ladder.

I do feel that Kos could be a good rematch. Unfortunately that fight was more decisive than the one with Penn. Kos has some work to do before he gets a title shot IMO. But yes, there are some good fights left at WW.

Originally Posted by rivethead

I just think the skill set that seperates Anderson from the rest of the MW's is much farther than the set that seperates GSP from the pack.

Right now I agree.

Originally Posted by rivethead

I can think of four or five fights that should happen at WW before he moves...if he's still champion.

Agreed. I don't think he should talk of moving. I think it is fans like us that ask the question. What are they supposed to say? "No, I am scared to death of Anderson and would never consider it"?

Originally Posted by rivethead

I also think it's funny how people include Heiron in that list. Certainly, GSP dominated him, but Heiron from three years ago isn't the same guy who is fighting in IFL today. I'm not saying Jay would knock Georges out, but he'd do far better than he did...with the possible exception of Koscheck, he's done more to fix holes in his game than anyone since GSP beat them. Koscheck is a question mark still, but I'd still like to see a rematch before GSP moves up in weight.

rh

I agree that Heiron has improved, but I think Georges has improved at least as much in those past 3 years.

Because of all the flack I have gotten on the GSP/Penn ordeal, I went back and watched the fight again. I still think Georges won, and that it was very close. One area that I noticed a large improvement in is GSP's passing of the guard. He didn't really try to pass BJ's guard in that fight. I think that will be a very interesting dimension if the rematch ever does happen, as he has seemingly improved a lot in that area.

IMO the biggest threats for GSP at WW would be

1. Penn if he moves up.
2. Kos if he continues to improve and earns another crack.

I say he beats Fitch pretty soundly.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I also think it's funny how people include Heiron in that list. Certainly, GSP dominated him, but Heiron from three years ago isn't the same guy who is fighting in IFL today. I'm not saying Jay would knock Georges out, but he'd do far better than he did...with the possible exception of Koscheck, he's done more to fix holes in his game than anyone since GSP beat them. Koscheck is a question mark still, but I'd still like to see a rematch before GSP moves up in weight.

rh

The reason I bring up heiron is not because heiron was the same fighter, it's because heiron is another big name in the ww division that gsp has beat just like karo (even though that was a long time ago too).

I think if Kos fought GSP again, he would pose a lot more problems this time, but the thing is just like heiron, GSP still beat him decisively whether it be via decision. He did get controlled on the ground and on the feet, so technically the rematch doesn't need to happen. The rematch with BJ on the other hand does need to happen.

Also, Gono has fought once in ufc thus far, so at this point he's not in title contention even with another win (unless it's a big name) considering the ww division has a lot of contendors. We all know gono is a big threat but UFC has to give him big fights for him to climb up the ladder and be a legitimate contendor, that may or may not happen in a year's time.

[markzabin]

Well the reason I put this thread together is cause I really think that both fights are possible. Both fights are already being talked about, with BJ wanting the rematch badly, and GSP announcing that Silva is a possible opponent, but I really think that this is more about Silva not having any more contenders to tko and that is why I think that fight will happen instead of BJ. That and Dana keeps saying Silva is #1 and GSP is #2 so wouldn't that make a lot of sense? It might come down to making BJ happy with his revenge spree so who knows.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by markzabin

Well the reason I put this thread together is cause I really think that both fights are possible. Both fights are already being talked about, with BJ wanting the rematch badly, and GSP announcing that Silva is a possible opponent, but I really think that this is more about Silva not having any more contenders to tko and that is why I think that fight will happen instead of BJ. That and Dana keeps saying Silva is #1 and GSP is #2 so wouldn't that make a lot of sense? It might come down to making BJ happy with his revenge spree so who knows.

From what I have read, GSP was asked if he would fight Silva, and he said something to the extent of someday maybe. That is very different than GSP announcing that he wants to fight Silva. It is fans and reporters that pose things like that to get fighters into (internet) trouble.

There was another thread about whether it would be considered a bigger accomplishment to move up or down to beat a fighter? Anderson will likely have his division cleaned out before Penn or GSP. Do you think that Silva thinks it would be a bigger accomplishment to beat someone at WW or at LHW? I think Silva moving up to fight Chuck or Tito or possibly even Rampage would be most likely. Silva seems to be all about testing his skills. I mean, a 4th grader doesn't choose to make a name for himself by fighting the toughest 3rd grader. No, he goes after the 5th grader. I think Penn probably wants GSP, but I doubt that outside of reporters asking, that GSP wants Anderson Silva.

[CHUCKtheCHAMP]

Originally Posted by Palma

I think you are crazy... Penn vs. Silva would be much more interesting then GSP vs. Silva... at least Penn has the ability to not get finished...

In regards to Penn vs. GSP... I agree that GSP has improved more then Penn since their first fight, but he has to improve at the same rate for the next 10 years just to catch up to where Penn was when they fought the first time for them to have equal ability... Penn improved in the only area he needed to... his strenght and conditioning.

Penn vs. GSP: Penn by tko in the 2nd

GSP vs. Silva: Silva by KO in the 1st

Penn vs. Silva: Silva by UD.

thats fuckin ridiculous...stop hating on gsp and nuthugging bj...

[markzabin]

Originally Posted by kc56

From what I have read, GSP was asked if he would fight Silva, and he said something to the extent of someday maybe. That is very different than GSP announcing that he wants to fight Silva. It is fans and reporters that pose things like that to get fighters into (internet) trouble.

There was another thread about whether it would be considered a bigger accomplishment to move up or down to beat a fighter? Anderson will likely have his division cleaned out before Penn or GSP. Do you think that Silva thinks it would be a bigger accomplishment to beat someone at WW or at LHW? I think Silva moving up to fight Chuck or Tito or possibly even Rampage would be most likely. Silva seems to be all about testing his skills. I mean, a 4th grader doesn't choose to make a name for himself by fighting the toughest 3rd grader. No, he goes after the 5th grader. I think Penn probably wants GSP, but I doubt that outside of reporters asking, that GSP wants Anderson Silva.

Silva seams to think otherwise:

"I didn't know GsP declared that he wants to fight me... This is the first time I'm hearing it. What can I say? I think that its good thing, after all I wont be jobless (laughs). St. Pierre is a great fighter but I don't think its good to move up and fight the champion in your first fight in a new division... I wouldn't do it. I weight 98kg(215pounds) and I wouldn't do it the way hes talking(fighting the champion). I respect him, he can say whatever he wants. If this fight really happens hopefully its gonna be a great fight."


"In the moment I'm just eating more(laughs). I didn't sign any fight...We're trying to set up a fight against Roy Jones Jr. Thats my desire. I'm a big fan of him," said Anderson, who will arrive in Rio de Janeiro in the next week to train at Minotauro's Gym. He wants to train with Paulo Filho too. "Thanks god that Paulo recovered. He proved that hes a real Samurai one more time. I already talked to him. As soon as I arrive in Rio de Janeiro I'm going to meet him and we'll train together too", concluded.