Rather see GSP vs. BJ or GSP vs. Silva? Poll

[neonatural45]

Originally Posted by scottsec

How about GSP vs Fitch, GSP vs Alves, GSP v Diego, GSP v Swick, GSP v Davis.....the Anderson talk is just ridiculous when the division he is in has so many good fighters that he hasnt even beat yet.

agreed, If GSP can beat Fitch, Alves, Diego, Karo, Gono, and then Penn then he deserves to take on Anderson. He is nowhere near done clearing out the welterweight division yet, lots of good fights still out there at 170 pounds for him.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Probably the same subjective perspective that leads people to say GSP has very good standup, that he "outwrestled" anyone, or has been improving in exponentially, etc.

People see what they want to see, perceived reality is reality.


I think BJ has shown up in phenomenal shape for his last two bouts. Thats enough to make an educated guess that he's been working on his cardio. Before he fought Pulver, I postulated that this was a shot at redemption for him, a chance to get his career back on rails, if the loss to Pulver de-railed it years ago. Using different words, BJ has echoed, [or at least not contradicted] that statement. That's enough to indicate, to me anyway, that he's got renewed focus and is systematically working toward achieving goals, rather than relying on natural talent.

Nobody [at least nobody intelligent] is denying BJ's innate skill set. Justifiably, people have questioned his cardio and his willingness to put the work in before the fight...I've seen enough evidence that he's actively addressing both of those issues.

rh

Originally Posted by Palma

Yes, you are the only one here who is right... you cannot explain in detail anything about fighting, but of course you are the only one who is right. GSP is the best fighter around, BJ Penn is ok, and Randy Couture is a shitty fighter.

Obviously you are in the minority of people who can watch a Penn fight and not realize (or not recognize) what the big deal is with his talent and ability levels.

We aren't talking about Randy. We are talking about GSP vs Silva, Silva vs Penn, and GSP vs Penn.

I was never claiming that GSP was some standup God. In fact, I was saying that he would be a fool to stand with Silva. I was trying to give supporting argument for why I think that a fight with GSP and Silva would go to decision. Silva does not have great takedown d. It is my stance that a fight between the 2 of them would be spent on the ground and would be determined by if Silva could submit GSP.

Striking Silva >> GSP
Takedowns GSP >> Silva
Takedown D GSP >> Silva
Submissions Silva > GSP
Submission D ?

So why is it so unreasonable that I think that fight would hit the ground and be determined by if Silva could submit GSP? I bet you if Rich gets a 3rd try, he will try to take it to the ground.

I think that Penn is very talented. He has a TON of potential. Forgive me for saying that I don't know that his conditioning is top notch to go 5 or even 3 rounds with GSP. I think it he goes 3 rounds or more with Sherk, we will be able to gauge his cardio, strength and conditioning much better. What I am saying is that aside from possibly Sherk, there is nobody in the LW division right now that could test BJ's cardio like another fight with St. Pierre would. So I really don't think that is discrediting Penn or his skills.

So am I "discrediting Penn" by saying that Anderson Silva will beat him if that fight ever happened? What it comes down to is that I feel Penn would try to stand with Silva, where as GSP would not. I think that his loss to Serra reminded GSP that he is not a stand up fighter.

Originally Posted by neonatural45

agreed, If GSP can beat Fitch, Alves, Diego, Karo, Gono, and then Penn then he deserves to take on Anderson. He is nowhere near done clearing out the welterweight division yet, lots of good fights still out there at 170 pounds for him.

GSP has already beaten Karo and Penn. So that leaves Fitch (next), Alves (if he beats Hughes), Diego, and Gono.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by kc56

We aren't talking about Randy. We are talking about GSP vs Silva, Silva vs Penn, and GSP vs Penn.

I was never claiming that GSP was some standup God. In fact, I was saying that he would be a fool to stand with Silva. I was trying to give supporting argument for why I think that a fight with GSP and Silva would go to decision. Silva does not have great takedown d. It is my stance that a fight between the 2 of them would be spent on the ground and would be determined by if Silva could submit GSP.

Striking Silva >> GSP
Takedowns GSP >> Silva
Takedown D GSP >> Silva
Submissions Silva > GSP
Submission D ?

So why is it so unreasonable that I think that fight would hit the ground and be determined by if Silva could submit GSP? I bet you if Rich gets a 3rd try, he will try to take it to the ground.

I think that Penn is very talented. He has a TON of potential. Forgive me for saying that I don't know that his conditioning is top notch to go 5 or even 3 rounds with GSP. I think it he goes 3 rounds or more with Sherk, we will be able to gauge his cardio, strength and conditioning much better. What I am saying is that aside from possibly Sherk, there is nobody in the LW division right now that could test BJ's cardio like another fight with St. Pierre would. So I really don't think that is discrediting Penn or his skills.

So am I "discrediting Penn" by saying that Anderson Silva will beat him if that fight ever happened? What it comes down to is that I feel Penn would try to stand with Silva, where as GSP would not. I think that his loss to Serra reminded GSP that he is not a stand up fighter.



GSP has already beaten Karo and Penn. So that leaves Fitch (next), Alves (if he beats Hughes), Diego, and Gono.

Don't try and throw that bullshit at me... I never questioned your argument or your reasoning... you are the one who is exasperated at our responses and our opinions and that is what I was responding to.

I've given up trying to talk to you about fighting style and the technical aspects of fight because imo you don't know what you are talking about and you just like to argue in circles...

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

agreed, If GSP can beat Fitch, Alves, Diego, Karo, Gono, and then Penn then he deserves to take on Anderson. He is nowhere near done clearing out the welterweight division yet, lots of good fights still out there at 170 pounds for him.

Fitch, Alves and Penn I can agree with but Diego, Gono and Karo? Gono is nowhere near the ww title picture, karo has been beaten by GSP already convincingly and Diego is out of the title picture and there's no way diego could get GSP down. GSP would maul him on the feet.

GSP has to beat all the legitimate contendors left like Fitch, Alves and BJ (if he moves up). He doesn't need to beat every single fighter in the ww division before deciding to move up.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by Palma

Don't try and throw that bullshit at me... I never questioned your argument or your reasoning... you are the one who is exasperated at our responses and our opinions and that is what I was responding to.

I've given up trying to talk to you about fighting style and the technical aspects of fight because imo you don't know what you are talking about and you just like to argue in circles...

I was talking about carbondioxide. If you want to lump yourself in with him, that is up to you.

No, if I am ever exasperated with you, it is because when I try to talk to you about GSP or Penn, it always seems to come back to "Penn's potential" and because I think GSP will win again, that means I don't know what I am talking about.

Yes, I agree that Penn has a ton of potential, but I think that GSP would do better against Silva than Penn. I have not only said what I would think would happen in , but why.

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand about what I have said about that match up.

[YukonJordan]

GSP beats em both at any weight. End Thread

[kc56]

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

GSP beats em both at any weight. End Thread

Sigh....

Now I AM exasperated.

[neonatural45]

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

Fitch, Alves and Penn I can agree with but Diego, Gono and Karo? Gono is nowhere near the ww title picture, karo has been beaten by GSP already convincingly and Diego is out of the title picture and there's no way diego could get GSP down. GSP would maul him on the feet.

GSP has to beat all the legitimate contendors left like Fitch, Alves and BJ (if he moves up). He doesn't need to beat every single fighter in the ww division before deciding to move up.

He hasn't proved anywhere near dominance in that division, Im not saying that Diego or Gono would beat him BUT they should at least fight before he starts taking on Anderson. Diego is still a top welterweight who will get a title shot by the end of his career, and Gono is a legitimate threat to the title IMO. A champion has never moved up to take on another champion in the UFC and they have had guys like Chuck and Hughes almost completley clear out their divisions, GSP should have to do the same. He hasn't even defended the title yet...... Three title defenses shouldn't give someone the right to move up and challenge for a title there, especially leaving the strongest division the UFC has (170) in the dark to wait for GSP to try his luck with Silva. He has a long way to go before he moves up that is for sure

[kc56]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

He hasn't proved anywhere near dominance in that division, Im not saying that Diego or Gono would beat him BUT they should at least fight before he starts taking on Anderson. Diego is still a top welterweight who will get a title shot by the end of his career, and Gono is a legitimate threat to the title IMO. A champion has never moved up to take on another champion in the UFC and they have had guys like Chuck and Hughes almost completley clear out their divisions, GSP should have to do the same. He hasn't even defended the title yet...... Three title defenses shouldn't give someone the right to move up and challenge for a title there, especially leaving the strongest division the UFC has (170) in the dark to wait for GSP to try his luck with Silva. He has a long way to go before he moves up that is for sure

Agreed. GSP and Penn both need to clear out their respective divisions and defend their titles many times. At this point Silva is the only one that has been defending his title and dominating his division thus far.

However, this is a forum where we discuss all sorts of possibilities and ideas, so I was discussing things in a purely hypothetical nature.

[carbondioxide830]

wasnt couture vs. ortiz a champion vs. champion match? i'm probably wrong.