Shamrock won round1

[subman]

Originally Posted by The Sundance Kid

I don't see how anyone could think that Frank was winning the fight under any scoring system when the fight was stopped.

Under any scoring system? What kind of stupid answer is that? Okay, let's use a kickboxing scoring system, where takedowns count for nothing. Now Frank dominated round 1.

How about the scoring system for the Chuck Norris run league? Again Frank dominates Round 1.

Obviously, I am using these example to make a point about how idiotic your statement is. I just want to know EXACTLY how EliteXC scores. No matter what though Shamrock LOST due to illegal blows, period.

How about a REAL answer. What criteria does EliteXC use to score each round?

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by The Sundance Kid

I don't see how anyone could think that Frank was winning the fight under any scoring system when the fight was stopped.

This thread is about round 1. Since you can't score half a round as gospel, it is kinda fruitless to guess at who is winning when the fight was stopped.

[leelandk]

Renzo won the first round and a half with ease. Wouldn't have even been close on the judges scorecards. Judges tend to favor takedowns and ground control. Not saying Frank wasn't winning the standup or landing more strikes on the ground, but mma judges are still learning the game.

But no way would Frank have KO'ed Renzo. Frank couldn't keep it on the feet long enough to KO Renzo, and he knew it.

[chuteboxechamp]

Originally Posted by leelandk69

Renzo won the first round and a half with ease. Wouldn't have even been close on the judges scorecards. Judges tend to favor takedowns and ground control. Not saying Frank wasn't winning the standup or landing more strikes on the ground, but mma judges are still learning the game.

But no way would Frank have KO'ed Renzo. Frank couldn't keep it on the feet long enough to KO Renzo, and he knew it.

If you notice at the start of round 2 Renzo was having a noticably harder time getting frank to the ground, Frank stuffed 2 maybe 3 shots from Renzo, while dominating the striking, before renzo was able to get him to the ground. if not KO then TKO 3rd round. doesn't matter Franks a cheater he lost, poor sport too.

[subman]

Originally Posted by leelandk69

Renzo won the first round and a half with ease. Wouldn't have even been close on the judges scorecards. Judges tend to favor takedowns and ground control. Not saying Frank wasn't winning the standup or landing more strikes on the ground, but mma judges are still learning the game.

But no way would Frank have KO'ed Renzo. Frank couldn't keep it on the feet long enough to KO Renzo, and he knew it.

Once again I ask: What are the OFFICIAL judging criteria for EXC? They announced different rules and judging, but I have not seen the OFFICIAL guidelines they use in judging a round. Saying "mma judges" means nothing.

The rules for the disqualification are clear, but saying one or the other won a round, without knowing how EXC JUDGES ROUNDS is silly.

[Kyle Hyde]

Frank Shamrock is a super massive douche bag, hell he is even greater at being an ass than his older "bros" which is a class act in comparison

[tmatwig]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

It is a valid comparison, when you are trying to validate Shamrock doing MORE DAMAGE than Renzo, a prime exapmple is the St. Pierre vs Penn fihgt, even if it were a 5 round fight and St. Pierre did in rounds 4 & 5 what he did in rounds 2 & 3, the fact still remains, St. Pierre spent the night at the hospital and Penn spent the night at the club partying.

Damage is damage, there is no breaking down damage from round to round, in each MMA organization fights are either judged on a point system or an overall performance system, niether of those systems would've had Shamrock ahead in that fight.

Penn may have won the fight if it were PRIDE simply based on how badly he hurt St. Pierre in round 1 becasue Penn's performance round 1 trumped both of St. Pierres combined performances in rounds 2 & 3. However, Lil Nogs dominated the damage and standup against Shogun however Shogun scored like 3 takedowns per round and won the unanimous decision so eventhough PRIDE's scoring system is different, the outcome would nealrly always be the same as far as judges decisions go becasue takedowns and control are BJJ so it is a matter of "imposing of wills" and Renzo imposed his upon Shamrock, had Frank been stuffing takedowns and keeping the fight standing while landing some punches, he would've been winning the fight handily.

here you go again thinking you know everything, how come frank won the first round, how come it was reported that judges gave the first round to frank

[tmatwig]

Originally Posted by AJL416AZ

i'm not insulting anyone

i'm just saying that fights, and rounds, are not won by doing damage. there is more to it. position is a huge part, and when Frank spent 75% of the 1.5 rounds underneath Renzo, not only being taken down multiple times, but being side mounted, knee to belly, and north-south, along with several guard passes, there is no way he could win
except from guard, there is no way to do real damage from the bottom

why did the judges give the first round to frank and a ton of other people think frank won, i could have your back the whole match but if i am just laying there and you are punching me in the face and stomach i would still lose, frank won the 1st round

[Hypergit]

Yeah I'm not down with the 'no way to do damage from the bottom' theory. Either Renzo was certainly faking or you can hit hard from the bottom.

[dewrdie]

Originally Posted by The Sundance Kid

Is this thread for real? People truly think that Frank was winning the fight? Wow.

What were you saying there? Official scorecards show Frank won 1st round. Now what do you have to say?