Shamrock won round1

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by tmatwig

the bj fight is a bad comparision bj only did damage in round one young fellow, if your gonna insult people at least think of something better

It is a valid comparison, when you are trying to validate Shamrock doing MORE DAMAGE than Renzo, a prime exapmple is the St. Pierre vs Penn fihgt, even if it were a 5 round fight and St. Pierre did in rounds 4 & 5 what he did in rounds 2 & 3, the fact still remains, St. Pierre spent the night at the hospital and Penn spent the night at the club partying.

Damage is damage, there is no breaking down damage from round to round, in each MMA organization fights are either judged on a point system or an overall performance system, niether of those systems would've had Shamrock ahead in that fight.

Penn may have won the fight if it were PRIDE simply based on how badly he hurt St. Pierre in round 1 becasue Penn's performance round 1 trumped both of St. Pierres combined performances in rounds 2 & 3. However, Lil Nogs dominated the damage and standup against Shogun however Shogun scored like 3 takedowns per round and won the unanimous decision so eventhough PRIDE's scoring system is different, the outcome would nealrly always be the same as far as judges decisions go becasue takedowns and control are BJJ so it is a matter of "imposing of wills" and Renzo imposed his upon Shamrock, had Frank been stuffing takedowns and keeping the fight standing while landing some punches, he would've been winning the fight handily.

[chuteboxechamp]

it wouldn't have gone to decision frank would have knocked him out in 3rd round. but he didn't he cheated and lost.

[YukonJordan]

no way thats a fair comparison. BJ landed one clipping shot. Frank did way more damage to Renzo than Penn did to GSP.

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

no way thats a fair comparison. BJ landed one clipping shot. Frank did way more damage to Renzo than Penn did to GSP.

That whole statement is WOW.

BJ Penn must have a fist the size of Antonio Silva's and Tito's head and if you only saw 1 punch land, not sure what you were watching but is was not a fight. Penn landed jab after jab after jab and saying Frank did more damage to Renzo than Penn did to St. Pierre... Well I'll let you judge that.

St. Pierre's post fight interview (takes place in the HOSPITAL).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1js0V_fG0

[AJL416AZ]

Originally Posted by tmatwig

the bj fight is a bad comparision bj only did damage in round one young fellow, if your gonna insult people at least think of something better

i'm not insulting anyone

i'm just saying that fights, and rounds, are not won by doing damage. there is more to it. position is a huge part, and when Frank spent 75% of the 1.5 rounds underneath Renzo, not only being taken down multiple times, but being side mounted, knee to belly, and north-south, along with several guard passes, there is no way he could win
except from guard, there is no way to do real damage from the bottom

[Beatts35]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

Since when is MMA judged on damage? St. Pierre would've lost to Penn if that were the case but St. Pierre won because of TAKEDOWNS...

Research the rules, some of you are being fucking retarded and it makes this board look ignorant when so many people can't grasp the simple rules of MMA judging, organization to organization.

Shamrock got taken down at will, his TD defense was non existant, his guard was passed at will and he was completely controlled ont he ground, he couldn't get back to his feet, only throw knees to the body from the ground, that is not going to win you the round when you get taken down, controlled and have your guard passed at will.

Actually damage is a part of the NA judging system in mma. You can go back to an interview on fcf radio in november that had a guy who judges mma and kickboxing matches for nsac. and damage is one of the pieces used to score and judge a fight.

i do agree the renzo took frank down at will, and was able to keep postion and improve postion while on top.

they also judge a fight on trying to finish. renzo never tried to finish he just had control. didn't throw many shots from the top and never went for a sub.

that being said. although frank probably did more damage to renzo. they probably did score the first round for renzo, just for td's and top control.

i do agree that shamrock was much better than renzo standing. the longer the fight went the better it would have been for renzo. renzo was taking more damage and frank could have worn him down for the finish.

although it sucks the fight had toi be stopped. i think we say that frank is still able to fight and a good level. shake off a bit more of the ring rust and he's still a game fighter. renzo has had a few good fights in the last year and i think it was a goo gauge to see where frank really is.

[The Sundance Kid]

Is this thread for real? People truly think that Frank was winning the fight? Wow.

[Hypergit]

I really can't be bothered debating here, but I'd like to see some retort to this:

Originally Posted by Melon

Round 1, Shamrock 10-9....Remember, scoring was based on effective striking, aggression, grappling and cage control. Shamrock had better striking, more aggressive, and controlled the pace while standing AND on his back.....Renzo won in the grappling...

In addition, I'm not even sure how dominated Sham was in the grappling - Renzo got good positions but did absolutely nothing with them except get kneed in the ribs (which HURTS). That is not domination - it is a clinic in how to totally waste good positions.

[subman]

Originally Posted by The Sundance Kid

Is this thread for real? People truly think that Frank was winning the fight? Wow.

CAn anyone post the scoring rules for Elite XC before claiming they know who won what? XC has DIFFERENT scoring guidelines. How about we go based on what they use to judge?

[The Sundance Kid]

Originally Posted by subman

CAn anyone post the scoring rules for Elite XC before claiming they know who won what? XC has DIFFERENT scoring guidelines. How about we go based on what they use to judge?

I don't see how anyone could think that Frank was winning the fight under any scoring system when the fight was stopped.