Top position X= winning.

[Hypergit]

MMA needs to lose that mentality - it isn't wrestling. Position means next to nothing unless it's being used to punish or submit someone.

That is all

[DonFrye]

I agree to an extent, however it's like "effective aggression" or "Ring generalship" in boxing. Establishing a dominant position is somewhat an imposition of will when trying to score a fight.

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by DonFrye

I agree to an extent, however it's like "effective aggression" or "Ring generalship" in boxing. Establishing a dominant position is somewhat an imposition of will when trying to score a fight.

I see your point, however LnP is just defence imo - a way to avoid getting smashed up - and whilst it deserves some credit, it annoys me when people rate top position so highly they see it as superior even if the practitioner is getting their ribs and kidneys turned to mush with knees, for example.

[Trustym2]

Originally Posted by Hypergit

I see your point, however LnP is just defence imo - a way to avoid getting smashed up - and whilst it deserves some credit, it annoys me when people rate top position so highly they see it as superior even if the practitioner is getting their ribs and kidneys turned to mush with knees, for example.

Then, maybe the person on the ground shouldn't let themselves be taken down? Chuck Liddell comes to mind. He keeps it standing in his world. If a fighter keeps getting taken down over and over and over again, he will lose the fight, he's not keeping control. Heath Herring is a perfect example, so is Frank Shamrock before he cheated.

[Ubermensch]

Originally Posted by Trustym2

Then, maybe the person on the ground shouldn't let themselves be taken down? Chuck Liddell comes to mind. He keeps it standing in his world. If a fighter keeps getting taken down over and over and over again, he will lose the fight, he's not keeping control. Heath Herring is a perfect example, so is Frank Shamrock before he cheated.

That is a really uninformed statement. Some Ground fighters prefer to be in guard and to say they are losing to some lazy guy resting on top of them is just plain ignorant. Many practitioners of BJJ will clintch with you and then put their leghooks into you to force you into their guard. Does this mean the guy on top is winning or even has a position of controlling the absolutlely not!!!

[Rufio]

It depends. Lay 'n pray scores points when neither guy is doing damage, BUT when one guy actually does damage and the other guy does lay 'n pray, the guy doing the damage should be considered as having the advantage, regardless of how long he's on his back.


Tito/Vitor round 1 is a good example of this. Rocking your opponent >>>> having dominant position and laying there, even if most of the round is spent in the lay 'n pray position.