was renzo faking?

[Monsterman]

Havin this thread and the poll on mainpage are quite disrespectful to Renzo. He was winning, Shamrock broke the rules and got DQd. And now people are calling Renzo a pussy because he couldn´t continue. That shows as much class as Frank Shamrock has.

[Mac]

Originally Posted by Monsterman

Havin this thread and the poll on mainpage are quite disrespectful to Renzo. He was winning, Shamrock broke the rules and got DQd. And now people are calling Renzo a pussy because he couldn´t continue. That shows as much class as Frank Shamrock has.

It shows how much class some of the people in here have.

[killerinstinct]

Originally Posted by Thaistylist

I cant understand that after all Renzo has done and proven people think he is a fake. Its ridiculous to accuse such an honorable man of such a thing

I completely agree.This is a well spoken man of class were talking about here in Renzo Gracie ,he would never fake anything ,like this.It wasn't his fault that Frank Shamrock kneed him in the head while he was down.If anyone's to blame it's Frank.

[staindrocks]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Your entire post in stupid beyond belief. Knocking somebody out isn't the same as a concussion. But, there is no way in hell that you want to fight with a concussion, and you often know that you got a concussion when you are hit right. There are reports that he was vomiting and all that, which is a pretty damn good sign that it was a concussion. If he felt like vomiting and knew he had a concussion, of course hes not going to want to sit in the ring for 5 minutes when he already knows that he cant continue.

Hits to the spine and the back of the head are also COMPLETELY different that hits to most parts of the skull. So people react differently when they are hit in the skull or the spine/back of head. You are basically arguing that because somebody stubbed his toe once and wanted to still fight, that Renzo should have wanted to fight despite the fact that somebody hit him in the back of the head. Apples and oranges. You cant compare completely different kinds of strikes to different parts of the body with whatever you want.

If you've ever had a sports induced concussion, you would know that a lot of the time the pain isnt localized to one part of the skull. It just hurts in general, so clutching the face doesnt necessarily mean that he was trying to fake. Thats like the default place to clutch when injured. Plus, he would have to be completely idiotic to try to fake an injury by clutching somebody that obviously wasnt hit.

Actually, i've had 3 concussions from playing football in high school and college, one of which was of the severe type. Sorry to inform you, but none of the concussions "hurt" anywhere. What causes the concussions might hurt, but the concussions themselves don't "hurt". You will most likely get a headache later on, but that is the only pain associated with a concussion. And i wasn't referring to a fighter stubbing his toe, i was referring to a fighter getting knocked out and still wanting to fight, which i'm sure everyone has seen. You see athletes in the NFL getting concussions all the time, and if they don't continue playing in the game, it's because the training staff won't let them. Point is, even IF he did suffer a concussion, nobody told him he couldn't continue fighting(actually, they were giving him every opportunity to continue)...not his corner, not the referee, and not the doctor. HE is the one who decided that he couldn't continue fighting. So HE quit, any way you want to cut it!

PS - I'd much rather have a concussion than a broken arm, so why would he quit over a concussion when not quiting over a broken arm? That's why your "well, he broke his arm before tapping, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt" theory doesn't make much sense to me.

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by staindrocks

"well, he broke his arm before tapping, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt" theory doesn't make much sense to me.

Yeah agreed - zero sence for several reasons. An obvious reason is that Gracies aren't allowed to tap vs non-Brazilians in high profile fights. It would actually have been braver for him to have tapped given his family's beliefs.

Also that is a different situation in that he had to avoid tapping to have a chance of winning. He did the same vs Sham in that the only way for him to win (or certainly his best chance) was to refuse to continue. Thinking about it, it may have even been braver to play act for 5 minutes in front of thousands of paying customers instead of just continue with a hope and a prayer.

Basically, the 'broken arm' story has absolutely no bearing on this situation.

[tapper]

Originally Posted by Hypergit

Yeah agreed - zero sence for several reasons. An obvious reason is that Gracies aren't allowed to tap vs non-Brazilians in high profile fights. It would actually have been braver for him to have tapped given his family's beliefs.

Also that is a different situation in that he had to avoid tapping to have a chance of winning. He did the same vs Sham in that the only way for him to win (or certainly his best chance) was to refuse to continue. Thinking about it, it may have even been braver to play act for 5 minutes in front of thousands of paying customers instead of just continue with a hope and a prayer.

Basically, the 'broken arm' story has absolutely no bearing on this situation.

agreed , i think getting a broken arm instead of tapping is dumb an goes against every thing you train for, gracies like to talk about honor and respect, to tap out to your opponet, who obviously caught you, is a sign of respect, taking the broken arm instead is just being ignorant.

[Rufio]

Originally Posted by Monsterman

Havin this thread and the poll on mainpage are quite disrespectful to Renzo. He was winning, Shamrock broke the rules and got DQd. And now people are calling Renzo a pussy because he couldn´t continue. That shows as much class as Frank Shamrock has.

Wait, you saying Renzo was winning sounds VERY hypocritical, given your stance on Ken/Royce 2. Remember how you were claiming that Ken did NOT dominate Royce and kept bringing up his lay 'n pray?


Well, let's examine:


Ken landed a lot more shots while on top of Royce than Renzo did to Frank. Ken took a lot less shots and was in less danger vs. Royce than Renzo was vs. Frank. Ken had Royce's face swollen and beaten like hamburger, while Renzo did no damage to Frank. Ken controlled both the standup and the ground game against Royce, whereas Renzo was clearly outmatched in standup. So how come you were refusing to admit that, on-paper decision aside, Ken had an obvious unanimous decision win against Royce, yet you're saying that Renzo was winnng vs. Frank? Both involve lay 'n pray, but Ken's control was more complete and involved actual damage. Renzo's lay 'n pray involved throwing about 5 ineffectual hits the entire round and constantly getting tagged.



I know this is off-topic, and yeah my love for the Shamrocks has something to do with it, but I can't help but notice the logical inconsistency.

[mitchpmma]

Originally Posted by staindrocks

Actually, i've had 3 concussions from playing football in high school and college, one of which was of the severe type. Sorry to inform you, but none of the concussions "hurt" anywhere. What causes the concussions might hurt, but the concussions themselves don't "hurt". You will most likely get a headache later on, but that is the only pain associated with a concussion. And i wasn't referring to a fighter stubbing his toe, i was referring to a fighter getting knocked out and still wanting to fight, which i'm sure everyone has seen. You see athletes in the NFL getting concussions all the time, and if they don't continue playing in the game, it's because the training staff won't let them. Point is, even IF he did suffer a concussion, nobody told him he couldn't continue fighting(actually, they were giving him every opportunity to continue)...not his corner, not the referee, and not the doctor. HE is the one who decided that he couldn't continue fighting. So HE quit, any way you want to cut it!

PS - I'd much rather have a concussion than a broken arm, so why would he quit over a concussion when not quiting over a broken arm? That's why your "well, he broke his arm before tapping, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt" theory doesn't make much sense to me.

Your an idiot...getting hit behing the neck/spine can be paralizing. After suffering a concussion why would he want to up against a fighter like Shamrock he would get killed since his senses and reflexes arent to par. Football players are often sent off the field on stretchers when they receive hits behind the head or neck.
Bottom line is you dont know what your talking about and shouldn't comment and badmouth someone like Renzo over something you know nothing about

[staindrocks]

Originally Posted by Monsterman

Havin this thread and the poll on mainpage are quite disrespectful to Renzo. He was winning, Shamrock broke the rules and got DQd. And now people are calling Renzo a pussy because he couldn´t continue. That shows as much class as Frank Shamrock has.

This would be the single most idiotic statement i've read in this forum if not for all the other's just like it! These guys get paid to fight by the consumer(that's us), which gives the consumer every right to criticize anything about these fights or fighters. We're not walking in some monastery and criticizing the eldest monk, even though this is how you Gracie slurpers want everyone to think when it comes to Renzo or anyone related to him. This is a guy who competes in a sport for financial gain, financial gain which comes from every fan who has ever paid to watch it. Criticism just comes with the territory, so get over it!

[Ubermensch]

Staindrocks are you really just jjhk001 returning because your semantics and your arguments seem to be the same as jjhk001's?????