i wash my hands of him.

[Jones]

Renzo is alright as a fighter but he was faking it and he knows it, and everybody else knows it too. Don't let your hatred towards Franky blind you to the fact that Renzo was faking injury.
Also, that Herb Dean sure is one confused man. LOL! I don't think he even knows the rules of MMA here in the States. He's just so awkward, so unsure of himself. Dude needed a boxing announcer in Jimmy Lennon to tell him the rules and then Herb decided to make a decision based upon that. Silly man!
I think he's gonna get the boot from refereeing altogether soon.

[Steve88]

Originally Posted by Jones

Renzo is alright as a fighter but he was faking it and he knows it, and everybody else knows it too. Don't let your hatred towards Franky blind you to the fact that Renzo was faking injury.
Also, that Herb Dean sure is one confused man. LOL! I don't think he even knows the rules of MMA here in the States. He's just so awkward, so unsure of himself. Dude needed a boxing announcer in Jimmy Lennon to tell him the rules and then Herb decided to make a decision based upon that. Silly man!
I think he's gonna get the boot from refereeing altogether soon.

It doesn't make sense for him to fake this after the crap he has gone through in other fights and not backed down. You're so full of it..

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by Steve88

It doesn't make sense for him to fake this after the crap he has gone through in other fights and not backed down. You're so full of it..

In other fights he went through lots of crap. In this fight he faked.

What could be the connection? Ur.... The actions in both cases were in order to win maybe?

[vegas bushido]

Originally Posted by Steve88

It doesn't make sense for him to fake this after the crap he has gone through in other fights and not backed down. You're so full of it..

the gracies are notorious for pulling stunts before and after fights

1) gracie after he fought Kimo....apparently he was too drained from that monumental fight they just had to fight in the finals against some bum. so he had his whole family CARRY him out to the ring...yeah, real tough guy. i can think of 20 other instances where guys had to fight again after shit that was ALOT worse than what royce went through and they didnt quit.

2) rolyer gracie against saku- they want the fight to have no judges so they dont get jipped...anything else you would like gracies? please....anything

3) ryan gracie vs saku- claims injury before fight and can only go 1 round-anybody who watched that fight obviously saw that ryan wasnt injured, what a joke.

not saying that renzo was faking but those guys are so fucking shady..a real bunch of sportsmen.

[TheBonger]

Originally Posted by Hypergit

In other fights he went through lots of crap. In this fight he faked.

What could be the connection? Ur.... The actions in both cases were in order to win maybe?

lmao, sure that makes perfect sense. Renzo is winning the fight (you can argue that all you want, with the way MMA is scored in north america Renzo was winning the fight and it wasnt close) so after taking illegal blows, why not fake an injury so the fight is stopped. Well one reason for not doing that may be the fact that if Herby calls those knee strikes unintentional the fight is a no-contest. And for fucks sake what the hell does that "win" last night really do for Renzo? Come on someone tell me what the hell is so fucking beneficial from getting a DQ win over Frank in that manner, that Renzo would actually FAKE an injury to get it? The same Renzo Gracie that had his arm SNAPPED instead of tapping out. It is just the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard in MY LIFE for some of you people to be going on and on about how Renzo faked an injury and stole a W. The W in the fashion he got it means NOTHING, not a fucking thing. But because he didnt appear injuried enough for all you doctors out there, he is faking, Im glad to know you can diagnose injuries through your tv while sitting on your ass. Im sure that ability should be able to make you quite a bit a cash. How anyone can this around on Renzo after the mockery of a MMA fighter Frank Shamrock's display, is completely beyond me.

[Rufio]

Um, regarding Renzo "winning" ... While it's true that North American scoring is stupid in its favoritism of takedowns, to say it wouldn't be close is retarded. Again, I refer you to Tito/Vitor. That was a 10-9 Renzo round. Under North American scoring, Renzo maybe came out of that round one point ahead, but taking a LOT more damage than Frank did.


I don't like speculating about whether the injury is real or not, but one thing I'll say is that if this were a real life fight or under Pride rules, Frank would've won. And you can't even argue that Renzo would've been able to prevent the knees to the head if he knew they were coming, because the entire fight looked like Frank pounding away on a really heavy punching bag that had fallen on top of him.


While Renzo's wrestling skills get props, this fight clearly proves that Frank is the tougher fighter and should be a big favorite if they had a rematch.

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by TheBonger

Renzo is winning the fight (you can argue that all you want, with the way MMA is scored in north america Renzo was winning the fight and it wasnt close)

Shamrock won round 1 in most sane people's opinions.

However, this is a moot point as getting the DQ win -guarantees- victory, which is better than hanging on for a possible points win or highly unlikely submission.

Originally Posted by TheBonger

so after taking illegal blows, why not fake an injury so the fight is stopped. Well one reason for not doing that may be the fact that if Herby calls those knee strikes unintentional the fight is a no-contest. And for fucks sake what the hell does that "win" last night really do for Renzo?

First, they were obviously intentional. Second, even a no contest is preferable to a loss esp by KO which is where he was heading. He was hurting, and family honour was at stake. It was the most logical option for him.

Originally Posted by TheBonger

The same Renzo Gracie that had his arm SNAPPED instead of tapping out. It is just the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard in MY LIFE

Raising the arm snapping incident is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life so we're even.

He had no choice - as a Gracie he was simply not permitted to tap. Also, not tapping was his best chance to win much like exagerating his injury was in this fight.

Originally Posted by TheBonger

How anyone can this around on Renzo after the mockery of a MMA fighter Frank Shamrock's display, is completely beyond me.

I think they're both ****s, but yes the buck stops with Sham. Is that ok? Am I allowed a slightly different opinion to you?

Sham is a **** for cheating, and Renzo is a **** for exagerating his alleged injury, and I never want to see either of them again. That's my view and I'm sticking to it

[TheBonger]

Originally Posted by Rufio

I don't like speculating about whether the injury is real or not, but one thing I'll say is that if this were a real life fight or under Pride rules, Frank would've won. And you can't even argue that Renzo would've been able to prevent the knees to the head if he knew they were coming, because the entire fight looked like Frank pounding away on a really heavy punching bag that had fallen on top of him.


While Renzo's wrestling skills get props, this fight clearly proves that Frank is the tougher fighter and should be a big favorite if they had a rematch.

First off lets not do the what if's about the rules, thats just stupid. Because if frank can knee to the head so can Renzo and Renzo was in MUCH better position to knee to the head, Also franks were to the back of the head and that is illegal in Pride also. As far as this fight clearly proving Frank is the tougher fighter and should be a big fav in the rematch that if fucking LAUGHABLE. Ha Ha Ha. I dunno what fight you watched or what a fighter must do to prove something to you but to me being taken down with relative easy and throwing a few nice knees from the bottom doesnt make you the better fighter. As far is my saying it wasnt close, I said it and I would say it again, I would imagine if you 50 judges to watch that fight up to the point where it is stopped, I would say atleast 40 if not more would say Renzo was the winner. Im sorry if Frank is a personal hero or something but he looked like shit last night, As far as rematch goes it is highly highly doubtful that Frank would step back in with Renzo after being handled like that. The only reason for those knees to the back of the head were to avoid to untainted L on his record, and it really wouldnt look good if he had to do that again.

[TheBonger]

Originally Posted by Hypergit

Shamrock won round 1 in most sane people's opinions.

However, this is a moot point as getting the DQ win -guarantees- victory, which is better than hanging on for a possible points win or highly unlikely submission.



First, they were obviously intentional. Second, even a no contest is preferable to a loss esp by KO which is where he was heading. He was hurting, and family honour was at stake. It was the most logical option for him.



Raising the arm snapping incident is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life so we're even.

He had no choice - as a Gracie he was simply not permitted to tap. Also, not tapping was his best chance to win much like exagerating his injury was in this fight.



I think they're both ****s, but yes the buck stops with Sham. Is that ok? Am I allowed a slightly different opinion to you?

Sham is a **** for cheating, and Renzo is a **** for exagerating his alleged injury, and I never want to see either of them again. That's my view and I'm sticking to it

lol, I dunno what you got hold of last night to see the fight as you did, but damn I need to get me some of that. Im have no idea how u could say Frank was winning the first round, sorry just dont (every major MMA site that I have checked had Renzo winning the first rd). As far as me bringing up the arm snapping incident, I am not comparing the two situations, Im using the incident to show how tough the guy is. ( Also the only Pic he has in his gym is one of a loss) As far as gracies not being allowed to tap, how many other gracies had limbs snapped instead of tapping? You saying Renzo was on the verge on being KOed is funny, your a funny guy. When you say he exagerated his injury, is what really bothers me. First off what type of medical training to you have? Second even if your the best brain surgeon in the world, you will prolly have some trouble diagnosing him through the TV. I really just want to know how you are so sure that Renzo was not concussed and quit to get the worthless W

[Rufio]

Originally Posted by TheBonger

First off lets not do the what if's about the rules, thats just stupid. Because if frank can knee to the head so can Renzo and Renzo was in MUCH better position to knee to the head, Also franks were to the back of the head and that is illegal in Pride also.

The difference is that Frank has effective strikes. Renzo was allowed to strike already, and we saw throughout round 1 what happened REGARDLESS of his position: he was Frank's punching bag. We saw Frank rock Renzo with strikes in this fight. We saw Renzo have position to land good hits, and still make Josh Koscheck look like a king of ground 'n pound.


Also, a lot of knee strikes in Pride come VERY close to the back of the head. Sometimes, you can barely tell a difference between knees that are allowed in Pride and what happened here. I doubt Frank actually intended for them to land at that spot anyway. IMO, he's just crazy as hell these days and got caught up in the moment. It's sorta like Rashad throwing a punch at Sean Salmon even after he's clearly out cold. Sometimes fighters act without thinking.

Originally Posted by TheBonger

As far as this fight clearly proving Frank is the tougher fighter and should be a big fav in the rematch that if fucking LAUGHABLE. Ha Ha Ha. I dunno what fight you watched or what a fighter must do to prove something to you but to me being taken down with relative easy and throwing a few nice knees from the bottom doesnt make you the better fighter.

"A few?" He landed like over 20 good knees. He kept landing them again and again and AGAIN. There's no two ways about it: Renzo acted as little more than a blanket and a punching bag for Frank.


Frank landing CONSTANT clean strikes takes its toll for future rounds. Renzo laying on top of Frank soaking up damage does nothing for him in the long term.

Originally Posted by TheBonger

As far is my saying it wasnt close, I said it and I would say it again, I would imagine if you 50 judges to watch that fight up to the point where it is stopped, I would say atleast 40 if not more would say Renzo was the winner.

Let's compare it to Tito/Vitor round 1, which was scored as 9-10 Tito:


*Both Frank and Vitor rocked their opponents standing, although Vitor did more so

*Both Tito and Renzo spent a similar amount of time on top

*Tito actually was active from the top, whereas Renzo was not

*Renzo took a LOT of hits while he was on top, whereas Tito took virtually none



Comparing this round to a UFC round that was scored as 9-10, what exactly is your logic for saying that Renzo was way ahead in points based on the SAME system?

Originally Posted by TheBonger

Im sorry if Frank is a personal hero or something but he looked like shit last night, As far as rematch goes it is highly highly doubtful that Frank would step back in with Renzo after being handled like that. The only reason for those knees to the back of the head were to avoid to untainted L on his record, and it really wouldnt look good if he had to do that again.

Dude, you're being delusional. Saying Frank looked like shit here is like saying he looked like shit vs. Tito. He faces a better wrestler, he neutralizes their ability to do damage from the top, and he wears them down with strikes. He was doing exactly that. Look how many hits Frank landed. Look how many Renzo landed. Look at Renzo scrambling backwards from Frank's standing attacks. Hell, look at the progression of the standup. When it starts off, Frank lands nothing before the takedown. After it's stood up, Frank rocks him. Second round, Frank REALLY rocks him. Every time it got stood up, Renzo was in more trouble than the previous time. It's obvious that the zillion hits Frank was landing from the bottom were taking their toll.