BJ must be the agressor. He must make GSP be a counter striker when they are standing. Hopefully he doesn't come in at the full 170lbs which will make faster and in better cardio shape. On the ground BJ game plan is try to put GSP on his back. IF Penn can be on top on while in the half guard or full guard position. Penn must avoid GSP leg kicks and being a counter puncher. GSP is just naturally faster at 170 lbs.
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Fav fighter: A. Silva, BJ Penn, GSP, Rampage, Fedor, Mir and Marquardt.
BJ must be the agressor. He must make GSP be a counter striker when they are standing. Hopefully he doesn't come in at the full 170lbs which will make faster and in better cardio shape. On the ground BJ game plan is try to put GSP on his back. IF Penn can be on top on while in the half guard or full guard position. Penn must avoid GSP leg kicks and being a counter puncher. GSP is just naturally faster at 170 lbs.
Thank you. Finally some intelligent analyzing as opposed to one sided analyzing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN94z
How is the way that I call a match not intelligent? How is your way more intelligent? Teach me oh wise one, God of MMA. How do you call matches, SIR? How do you sit there and analyze a match before it happens? You sound like a coin flipper? I mean, when a fight is coming up all you have to go on is past fights, skill sets, experience, size, cardio, mental, heart, etc.etc......Now you have jumped into the fact that fighters underestimate other fighters. I thought we were talking about people on the board saying that one fighter does not have a chance against another fighter? How many things are you arguing about? The members on this board discussing who will win a fight has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual fighters underestimating each other. We have no clue what they are feeling. How is it shitty analyzing to play out different scenarios? That shows more intelligence than what you are showing my friend.
It sounds to me like you are the one that likes to hear yourself talk. I have been analyzing fights for a long time as have many others on this board...and the majority of the time the fights turn out just like alot people suggested. That sounds like pretty good analyzing and not shitty!! You say you have trained since you were 7? Then you should be able to make an intelligent decision on the way a fight may or may not turn out right? The majority of the people on this board train, so what makes you so much different.....you don't have to train to the see the obvious.
I don't know about you but i absolutely LOVE to hear myself speak!!! I can't help, I have a sexy voice!
P.S. I am not trying to gain your respect. I am here to talk about MMA and express my opinions on MMA and to get news on MMA. The board has seen many guys like you come and go and I have had many guys argue with me in the same way with no respect. It doesn't bother me at all. I am still going to get on here and voice my opinions and analyze fights with the same technique that I have always used. Its no skin off my back if you don't respect me.
Woooow. Children. Um, proper analyzing is given TWO sides to a story, as Tapot 07 did instead of being a nuthugger towards one fighter sir. My friend, I am saying to GIVE certain scenarios, which is what I was saying others were not but instead just simply saying how one person will beat the other without giving the other fighter credit. LOL! Apparently you and Palmo(or whatever his user name is) like to simply read what you want to read then what is actually said. When I spoke of underestimating I was referring to how I said someone a lower rank shouldn't beat me, but then he went on how I must've said something in reference to no one of my RANK can beat me in BJJ, which I surely did not speak of. I said that no one should underestimate anyone, but ANALYZING my rank and abilities towards someone, oh say a blue belt, they should NOT beat me. Thank you.
Who cares how long you've been analyzing? Nobody cares and that wasn't the point of my arguement. My point is to give logic for BOTH fighters on the do's and don'ts instead of being a dick and simply saying one fighter WILL beat the other because all it takes is one fighter to play in the other's game to do so. Not saying YOU did as such, but MANY others have.
To train is who can GIVE intelligent analyzing of such fights. Would you listen to someone give analyzing of BJJ when they've never done it? More so, would you let someone tell you what's wrong with your car or try to figure out what could be wrong if they've never worked on one? I think you get my point.
Sexy voice? How immature are you? can we hear your voice? Riiiight.
Many guys like me? LOL! Ok so anyways, back to the subject at hand...Plain and simple...Analyze a fight with intelligence and not nut hug one fighter without giving the other his dues and abilities be shown on what he can do to change the outcome of the fight. Stop being a one sided nut hugger in retrospect. There's no technique to your analyzing except that of someone who very little knowledge of actual MMA and a person who acts like they're 12 years old trying to "argue" on a forum. Further proof is how you've tried to put words in my mouth or make it seem like I mean one thing, when I mean the opposite. Have a great day and you can argue with other people as Palmo does because I have grown up things to do young man.
Ps- It is true there are just some people you can't get through to.
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mmanews 4 life
Last edited by rivethead; 11-18-2008 at 03:38 PM.
Reason: start using multiquotes or I'll kill you
have you even been reading any of my posts, i never said gsp was never on his back, I simply said he wasn't on his back long enough in any of his past 3 or 4 fights for anyone to say that he has a "weak guard"
and I never said that he never took hughes down, its an mma fight, its bound to end up on the ground, but his main focus that second fight (the one with the head kick) was to keep it standing and knock him out on the feet
He has been on his back long enough for us to judge his guard. A lot of the statistics are so bullshit that he has only been on his back for a combined total of 2-3 minutes before the Fitch fight. I've seen him on his back longer, even go back to his TKO days or his first hughes fight or his kos fight. You can really tell that he uses his explosiveness and athleticism to get out of those positions, not as much technique. The times when he was unable to do that, he rode out the round on his back, was very defensive and waiting for a standup or got sub'd
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy
from my recollection gsp got quite a few takedowns in the second and third rounds in their first fight, bj penn was actually upset because gsp won that fight by takedowns, i recall bj saying in one of his interviews that its not a takedown match, its an mma match-so bj admits to gsp taking him what makes you believe he can't
I never said that GSP can't take him down, but I don't think he can take him down at will. One of the reasons GSP was much more tired in that fight than his usual fights was because he had to spend a lot more energy to take BJ down. Remember it's not a 3 round fight, it's a 5 round... he can't just keep picking him up to slam him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy
and if you want to blame his takedowns on bj's cardio then i can just as easily say that bj won the first round on the feet because he poked gsp in the eye in the first minute of that round-where gsp openly stated that his vision was blurry throughout the entire round
Well what about BJ clipping his nose to break it.. that was caused by BJ. The fact is eyepoke or no nose break, BJ outstruck him that round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy
and yes if your training full time with the canadian wrestling team then your wrestling skills are going to develop to the level higher than normal
yea it is going to develop but it's very hard to train for someone with very unorthodox non-wrestling oriented takedown defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy
GSP actually stated that he believes he would have done really well simply based off his training with his training partners on the team. add that to his athletic ability and his ability to mix it up well with his stand up you have one of the best takedowns in all of mma
I'm pretty sure GSP would have done well in college in wrestling but since he didn't tryout for the olympics, you can't say if he would've made it. Brock Lesnar thought he could make it easily into the NFL and people were saying he was doing well in practice. In the end, he got cut. We just don't know how it would've played out in the end
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy
gsp has actually grown physically as well you can notice the difference and if you cant he even says it on one of dana's video blogs (i think ufc 89) thats he's maturing and his bone structure is growing as well
gsp is all around different from when he first fought penn
I don't know how much GSP has grown, maybe his tight shorts are throwing you off a bit. He has stated in multiple interviews that he is able to functionally use his strength better. He used to cut from 185 and now he cuts from 187... not much difference. Also, he has said it in many interviews "I am stronger now than ever". Even check back to the footage before the Trigg fight. If you haven't noticed he says a lot of similar things because of his language barrier... "Losing to Matt Serra was the best thing that ever happened to me", "You do not fix things that are not broken" and "it's like playing cards, you never want to show your hand" (in reference to people asking him his gameplans).
Penn is also different from when he fought GSP... I honestly think they made very similar changes. GSP actually went back to his old style, his TKO style where he uses his wrestling much more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishy
may be i exaggerated a little bit with the 10x the fighter he is from before, but for you to deny that he has not evolved into a much better fighter since the penn fight means you have no clue what your talking about and your hating on the dude, the guy started training with olympic wrestling team about 3 years ago, the guy just got his bjj black belt, as far as i know he has stated that he knows his stand up needs improvement-so i'm guessing hes working on that as well. I dont think you have seen any gsp fights because had you watched you could actually notice the progression in wrestling, stand up and his ground game, so next time you watch a fight dont just look at the pictures but watch the guy fighting lol
I have no clue what I'm talking about? I don't come in here stating BS like he was 10x the fighter and GSP can take BJ down at will. I state everything from facts presented.
Also, you must retarded if you think I'm hating on GSP. I clearly stated in this thread that GSP is my favourite fighter... not only that BJ is not even in my top 5 favourite fighters. I'm very unbiased in my views... while clearly you let your favouritism obscure your perception of presented facts.
and instead of staying stupidness like "don't just look at the pictures but watch the guy fight", maybe you need to learn to watch the tapes and identify the facts yourself.
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Joe Rogan: "If you put Phil Baroni's brain in Pedro Rizzo's body, he would not lose."
Mike Goldberg: "and he would speak better english too"
--- UFC 45 - Rizzo vs Rodriguez match ---
Woooow. Children. Um, proper analyzing is given TWO sides to a story, as Tapot 07 did instead of being a nuthugger towards one fighter sir. My friend, I am saying to GIVE certain scenarios, which is what I was saying others were not but instead just simply saying how one person will beat the other without giving the other fighter credit. LOL! Apparently you and Palmo(or whatever his user name is) like to simply read what you want to read then what is actually said. When I spoke of underestimating I was referring to how I said someone a lower rank shouldn't beat me, but then he went on how I must've said something in reference to no one of my RANK can beat me in BJJ, which I surely did not speak of. I said that no one should underestimate anyone, but ANALYZING my rank and abilities towards someone, oh say a blue belt, they should NOT beat me. Thank you.
Who cares how long you've been analyzing? Nobody cares and that wasn't the point of my arguement. My point is to give logic for BOTH fighters on the do's and don'ts instead of being a dick and simply saying one fighter WILL beat the other because all it takes is one fighter to play in the other's game to do so. Not saying YOU did as such, but MANY others have.
To train is who can GIVE intelligent analyzing of such fights. Would you listen to someone give analyzing of BJJ when they've never done it? More so, would you let someone tell you what's wrong with your car or try to figure out what could be wrong if they've never worked on one? I think you get my point.
Sexy voice? How immature are you? can we hear your voice? Riiiight.
Many guys like me? LOL! Ok so anyways, back to the subject at hand...Plain and simple...Analyze a fight with intelligence and not nut hug one fighter without giving the other his dues and abilities be shown on what he can do to change the outcome of the fight. Stop being a one sided nut hugger in retrospect. There's no technique to your analyzing except that of someone who very little knowledge of actual MMA and a person who acts like they're 12 years old trying to "argue" on a forum. Further proof is how you've tried to put words in my mouth or make it seem like I mean one thing, when I mean the opposite. Have a great day and you can argue with other people as Palmo does because I have grown up things to do young man.
Ps- It is true there are just some people you can't get through to.
Child? How old do you think I am? Immature? Aren't you the one that started name calling first? Who cares how long you have been training?? No one. THe majority of the people in here train, so what? Does it make anyone special that they train? Nuthugger? I am far from a nuthugger. Comparing skillsets and giving one fighter or the other more credit in a specific area is not nuthugging.
No you can't hear my voice and no one ever said you could....I said I like to hear my own voice. Ever hear of the word scarcastic? A little serious are we? I read posts that you have written and don't put words in your mouth. a 12 year old arguing? Its funny that you reply every time even after beginning the argument in the first place. You called yourself out on that one. You have grown up things to do? We all do....its called real life, kid. That's funny because you talk so highly about not being a dick, yet throughout this whole thread you have been the biggest D-I-C-K of anyone. You act like you are high and mighty about MMA yet you can't carry on an intelligent conversation without insults. Once again you are being a D-I-C-K by insulting my MMA knowledge. What on earth makes you think that you have more MMA knowledge than me or any other person on this board including Palma? I mean we state goods and bads to both sides and give credit where credit is do. I mean you think that giving our opinion on what either fighter's gameplans should be is intelligently analyzing a fight? The fighters watch the tapes on each other and they see holes that even you, the God of all MMA, don't see that they want to exploit. So how does me saying, "okay this is what BJ's plan should be or what GSP must do to win" any different than people stating strengths and weaknesses and comparing them that way?
Quote:
To train is who can GIVE intelligent analyzing of such fights. Would you listen to someone give analyzing of BJJ when they've never done it? More so, would you let someone tell you what's wrong with your car or try to figure out what could be wrong if they've never worked on one? I think you get my point
I agree with this, but many people that have been watching MMA for 10 years and never trained, can tell you almost as much of what is going on as someone that trains. I mean I am no doctor, but I can tell when someone has a cold, sinus infection, flu, etc...just from being around it.
P.S. That is very true. You must have been told that before. And with that being said, I am done with this conversation. It's getting ridiculous. You have your opinion and I have mine. That is not going to change.
Woooow. Children. Um, proper analyzing is given TWO sides to a story, as Tapot 07 did instead of being a nuthugger towards one fighter sir...
Bitch Trash...first, start using the multi quote feature: there is a small white box with quotation marks in it to the lower right of each post that you want to quote. Click on however many you want to quote and you won't have to double post and continue to annoy me. You should read the stickie announcement for Forum Rules and FAQs...that's all in there.
Second...your opinion is as valid as anyone elses, but when you start off a comment by calling people children, you're not going to sway them with your scintillating argument.
Third...you can analyze a fight and still come up with an informed bias toward one fighter, it doesn't make you a nuthugger. Nuthuggery is more about ignoring facts and/or distorting them [ie., GSP was accepted to the Canadian Olympic team, GSP took -insert fighter here- down at will...] things like that.
That being said, welcome to the board and good luck.
Predicting is one thing, but do it in a DICK manner is another my boy.
Uh... when was I being a dick to you again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
Seems you get enjoyment out of arguing on the internet.
And you are arguing because you don't enjoy it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
Either you're single or your g/f is screwing another guy because you latch onto her and won't let her breathe given your constant need to argue points and statements, that if they agreed with you, are still in your range of arguement. In other words, ...
Ok, so you want to go there with me? lol, bring it on buddy. And I'm the one arguing in a dick manor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
There are other black belts I may have a hard time against, but if you read the statement I wrote instead of reading what you WANTED to read, then you'll see I said those BELOW my rank. Duh. Like ya know, a blue belt?
I read your statement, but it had nothing to do with my point, which I have already reiterated for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
You really suck at this arguing thing eh?
This comming from the guy who is resorting to baseless assumptions, personal attacks, and cheap shots? Yeah... you are a real debate captain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
And some people have talents that do improve with skill improvement? Riiiiight.
It depends on what definition of Talent you are referring to... Talent has more then one meaning, and in my argument I am referring to natural ability vs. learned ability. You know what natural inclination means?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
So what was it you were trying to say?
You don't know how read or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
And being in the Olympics or World champ medals don't mean shit considering some of the best in the world never have or would sign up for such events.
Yeah... uh no. I'm starting wonder how full of shit are you. Lol, how would you know someone is the best in the world if they never even competed against the best in the world? Great fucking logic man. lol, priceless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
I don't recall Anderson Silva joining the Olympics or SOME(had to be specific for you) of the other UFC fighters doing as such. Sure SOME have, but not all...So where is that reason to call anyone great or the best when they haven't faced as such?
What? You're not even making sense now. What event would Silva even compete in the Olympics. Man you missed the point by a fucking mile. For someone who throws the term "intelligence" around you really are pretty dense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
I've been training since 7 years old.
And this has to do with what again? you just like bullshitting about yourself on internet forums because you have no argument to back you up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
He's beaten every top? Odd...Aren' there some he's not even faced yet? Like oh say...Thiago Alves?
That's your argument? Namming only one fighter who has only been in contention for the past 6 months? I don't think you fully understand the tearm "greatest WW of all time"... but thanks for trying and failing as you are so good at doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
And half of those victories were surely not as productive as some of the other Welterweights victories for sure against the same fighters.
Uhh... you want to re-write this sentence so it actually makes some sort of understandable sense? Don't make me feel like I am arguing with Rainman
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
And no it has not been intelligent debate or I would have not said anything. But you can go argue with someone else considering your arguing is that of a child and your logic is that of a moron. As I said, I feel for a g/f is you do in fact have one cause trying to pick apart someone's opinions on a forum shows your maturity, especially when some of what I said I even agreed with you on, apparently,.
For fuck's sake due... I can't even understand your giberish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
yet you still felt the need to argue.
and you are doing what? Your just bitching then with no point to discuss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
Ps- Try not to use statistics to prove the outcome of future fights, because THAT my friend, is dumb logic. Considering how many shockers have come about i the last year alone?
When were statistics used again in my argument? And how is making a predicition proving the outcome of a fight?
Look, Bitchtrash, your caregiver obviously is a great person helping you type up these gem of a posts, but she clearly needs to go back to HS and learn to construct proper sentence structer. The meaning of your off-base rants simply fell flat when the reader can't tell what subject you are even discussing. I'm sure the series of yells and noises you make are difficult for her to translate into writing, but with a little practice I'm sure you two can make a post that actually has a point and makes sense at the same time.
He has been on his back long enough for us to judge his guard. A lot of the statistics are so bullshit that he has only been on his back for a combined total of 2-3 minutes before the Fitch fight. I've seen him on his back longer, even go back to his TKO days or his first hughes fight or his kos fight. You can really tell that he uses his explosiveness and athleticism to get out of those positions, not as much technique. The times when he was unable to do that, he rode out the round on his back, was very defensive and waiting for a standup or got sub'd
so stats are wrong, and your right, i myself havent seen gsp on his back by fitch, hughes the last two fights (not the first one) and kos did actually get him on his back in the end of the first round when they fought. About that, I still don't understand how he has a weak guard, kos threw a couple of fists, couple of elbows but did no damage having gsp on his back for over a minute, gsp actually had a really good game off his back, he had butterfly guard (which is probably the best position to have depending on your situation) and had over hooks on kos's arms or held on to him tight to avoid any damage- so again hows that a weak guard, you might know more about bjj than me, but any fool can tell you that that was a good display of bjj by gsp so again i dont understand where you and palma are getting your facts about his weak guard...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
I never said that GSP can't take him down, but I don't think he can take him down at will. One of the reasons GSP was much more tired in that fight than his usual fights was because he had to spend a lot more energy to take BJ down. Remember it's not a 3 round fight, it's a 5 round... he can't just keep picking him up to slam him.
again, gsp is much more stronger, athletic, much better wrestler and mixes everything up pretty well to get the takedowns, my point was, gsp will take him down whenever he wants to, he did take him down pretty much everytime he wanted in their first fight what makes you think he can't do it the second fight especially after he's evolved into a much better fighter-his cardio and conditioning will definitely be better than bj's which is gonna make a difference in the fight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
Well what about BJ clipping his nose to break it.. that was caused by BJ. The fact is eyepoke or no nose break, BJ outstruck him that round.
thats my point, why are people saying bj got taken down because his cardio sucked, the fact is cardio or no cardio, he got taken down and he lost the fight because of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
yea it is going to develop but it's very hard to train for someone with very unorthodox non-wrestling oriented takedown defense.
yes, again gsp was pretty successful in his takedown attempts to win the fight the first time, i don't see bj's takedown defence creating too much of a threat the second fight either
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
I'm pretty sure GSP would have done well in college in wrestling but since he didn't tryout for the olympics, you can't say if he would've made it. Brock Lesnar thought he could make it easily into the NFL and people were saying he was doing well in practice. In the end, he got cut. We just don't know how it would've played out in the end
agree with you, but theres no denying that his wrestling has improved significantly since the penn fight-anyone that believes otherwise should really watch his fights again and pay attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
I don't know how much GSP has grown, maybe his tight shorts are throwing you off a bit. He has stated in multiple interviews that he is able to functionally use his strength better. He used to cut from 185 and now he cuts from 187... not much difference. Also, he has said it in many interviews "I am stronger now than ever". Even check back to the footage before the Trigg fight. If you haven't noticed he says a lot of similar things because of his language barrier... "Losing to Matt Serra was the best thing that ever happened to me", "You do not fix things that are not broken" and "it's like playing cards, you never want to show your hand" (in reference to people asking him his gameplans).
in the video blog, as far as i can remember, dana actually made a comment about how big gsp looked, and gsp responded by saying (not an exact quote) that he was getting older, maturing (pointed to his wrist as he was saying..) that his BONE STRUCTURE was actually getting bigger-so not getting bigger by weight but by bone structure, which can lead to significant increase in strength (aka man power )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
Penn is also different from when he fought GSP... I honestly think they made very similar changes. GSP actually went back to his old style, his TKO style where he uses his wrestling much more.
agree with you there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. MMA
I have no clue what I'm talking about? I don't come in here stating BS like he was 10x the fighter and GSP can take BJ down at will. I state everything from facts presented.
Also, you must retarded if you think I'm hating on GSP. I clearly stated in this thread that GSP is my favourite fighter... not only that BJ is not even in my top 5 favourite fighters. I'm very unbiased in my views... while clearly you let your favouritism obscure your perception of presented facts.
and instead of staying stupidness like "don't just look at the pictures but watch the guy fight", maybe you need to learn to watch the tapes and identify the facts yourself.
i really think you should go back and watch the fights again, your not too sure about some of the things your saying (disagreeing with stats and gsp spent alot of time on his back)
just for the record I'm a huge bj penn fan, i dont need to make arguments for him because his greatness speaks for itself, i argue for gsp because people make stupid comments like his stand up is overrate or his wrestling never improved since he fought hughes the first time, it just upsets me that people dont give gsp the credit he deserves, he's a part of the new breed of fighters, and i think he's on a different level then bj penn right now
obviously if he faces someone such as bj with more technical striking his striking is not gonna look as good, but it doesnt mean its overrated and interms of his wrestling, it speaks for itself, he's outwrestled credible wrestlers, beat them at there own game to win fights
...my point was, gsp will take him down whenever he wants to, he did take him down pretty much everytime he wanted in their first fight what makes you think he can't do it the second fight especially after he's evolved into a much better fighter-his cardio and conditioning will definitely be better than bj's which is gonna make a difference in the fight
thats my point, why are people saying bj got taken down because his cardio sucked, the fact is cardio or no cardio, he got taken down and he lost the fight because of it
yes, again gsp was pretty successful in his takedown attempts to win the fight the first time, i don't see bj's takedown defence creating too much of a threat the second fight either
I think you should watch the GSP/Penn fight again. GSP isn't succesful in taking Penn down until the second round, when Penn is already gassed. Thus, people postulate that a fresh Penn's TDD > GSP's TD's. It wasn't a matter of Georges "taking him down pretty much whenever he wanted, " it was a matter of GSP taking him down pretty much after he was gassed.
Lol, I found a funny little tib-bit about bitch trash... in 40 posts he has mentioned that he has started training BJJ at age 7 and was black belt at age 19 several times already. Which would make him the youngest American BJJ Black belt ever... So bitch trash unless you are Ricky Lundell who received his black belt under Rickson and not Pablo Popovitch (as bitch trash claims), you are obviouslly full of shit about your black belt.
Full of shit about one thing... probably full of shit about everything. I think I am going to start calling you Napolean Dynamite.
I love people who make shit up about them selves on interent forums to try and garner credibility when they can just make a normal argument like everyone else.
So now we have like 20 wrestling state champs and one BJJ black belt who can't argue about any specific aspect of fighting technique.
His profiel pic is awesome as well... looks like a huge My Chemical Romance fan.
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