haha Couture wasn't successful for the long period he was in. He was active for a long time in the title picture (the grandest stage in MMA) but continually traded wins and losses.
Baumgartner was always in the grandest stage and repeatedly delivered. Also, having tied with the same amount of world/olympic championships as Karelin (probably the greatest greco wrestler of all time) is an amazing sign itself.
I'll definitely have a harder time arguing this though, your knowledge in amateur wrestling (from what I've noticed in the last 2 years) is top notch and the best on the forums.
Couture is the best example there is... he wins and losses but won championships throughout his career, but MMA has a more random outcome then wrestling does.
Karelin has 3 Gold Medals, but I don't disagree that Baumgartner was the best HW in US history and the most accomplished US Olympic wrestler ever.
You had it right when you said that lighter divisions are more technical, but they are also thicker in talent... for some reason really big guys would rather play football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitch trash
Fact is you don't who he is, when you should since you claim to know so much about MMA in general, and he trains ALOT of big time fighters. Where did I train with him? Well, sir it'd be back in 2004 in FT Lauderdale when I received my black belt under him. It'd be all over the news? Do you realize how many train at younger ages and receive their black belts at the age of 18-19 because they have to WAIT until they receive it at that age? You're right...It'd be all over the news, hence why any major/mid level star receives it and we find out either in an MMA forum or when a fight takes place that we watch on TV or attend.(i.e. no one knew Dustin Hazelett or Joe Daddy received their black belts not too long ago until these forums or when it was said on the last UFC pay per view that Dustin did). I love how your remarks to what I say seems to be sudden babble over not understanding what I say, but everyone else seems to talk through things with me on an intelligent basis without acting 12(as I have stated before because my little sister does the "I can't understand what you're saying" shit). Oh, look at that...Never knew there was an ignore list. Fun. Might wanna talk to the other guy I reconciled with(and we came to an understanding) because he has my "proof" that you claim to be oh so a lie. Good-bye.
Paragraphs are our friends... it's funny how all you can talk about is how everyone is unintelligent and doesn't know anything about MMA, yet you said not one thing MMA related. Everything you said can be applied to anything in life even if it's not sports related.
actually, no one can really tell how good gsp's guard is because he's only spent 5 minutes in total on his back for his whole career. and he seems to find a way to get off his back pretty easily.
GSP's options from his back
1. Stand up using athletic ability and power
2. Wait for bell to ring
3. Get finished
Haven't seen anything from GSP's back besides those.....
1. Stand up using athletic ability and power
2. Wait for bell to ring
3. Get finished
Haven't seen anything from GSP's back besides those.....
Besides, fighters with good guards don't usually avoid the guard their entire career... if you have a good guard you'll not only find a way to pull guard, but you will also win from guard at least once.
1. Stand up using athletic ability and power
2. Wait for bell to ring
3. Get finished
Haven't seen anything from GSP's back besides those.....
Well that's not entirely true. GSP has swept Spratt straight into mount before too.
GSP uses a very defensive guard where he is trying to minimize damage by using wrist control effectively. He did that against Menjivar, Kos and Fitch. The problem is that he should learn to use his guard offensively... maybe some reverse armbars.. maybe a few triangles... and what about the gogo lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palma
Besides, fighters with good guards don't usually avoid the guard their entire career... if you have a good guard you'll not only find a way to pull guard, but you will also win from guard at least once.
Well it also depends on your wrestling too. A lot of BJJ practioners don't have the great takedown ability possessed by some wrestlers. GSP never needed to pull guard because he has been highly successful in taking down his opponents. Shields is actually a very good example because he rarely pulls guard (well he does it much more in BJJ tourneys). He has great wrestling and takes his opponent down quite frequently, so he probably doesn't see the need in pulling guard. Then again a lot of fighters have better top games than bottom.
__________________
Joe Rogan: "If you put Phil Baroni's brain in Pedro Rizzo's body, he would not lose."
Mike Goldberg: "and he would speak better english too"
--- UFC 45 - Rizzo vs Rodriguez match ---
Well it also depends on your wrestling too. A lot of BJJ practioners don't have the great takedown ability possessed by some wrestlers. GSP never needed to pull guard because he has been highly successful in taking down his opponents. Shields is actually a very good example because he rarely pulls guard (well he does it much more in BJJ tourneys). He has great wrestling and takes his opponent down quite frequently, so he probably doesn't see the need in pulling guard. Then again a lot of fighters have better top games than bottom.
I agree that GSP doesn't need to pull guard to win fights (obviously lol) but if his guard game was dangerous at all he wouldn't avoid it as much as he does. And pulling guard doesn't mean he has to jump guard standing... it just means to intentionally use his guard for offensive purposes.
Well that's not entirely true. GSP has swept Spratt straight into mount before too.
GSP uses a very defensive guard where he is trying to minimize damage by using wrist control effectively. He did that against Menjivar, Kos and Fitch. The problem is that he should learn to use his guard offensively... maybe some reverse armbars.. maybe a few triangles... and what about the gogo lol.
Well it also depends on your wrestling too. A lot of BJJ practioners don't have the great takedown ability possessed by some wrestlers. GSP never needed to pull guard because he has been highly successful in taking down his opponents. Shields is actually a very good example because he rarely pulls guard (well he does it much more in BJJ tourneys). He has great wrestling and takes his opponent down quite frequently, so he probably doesn't see the need in pulling guard. Then again a lot of fighters have better top games than bottom.
so is having a defensive guard having a weak guard? (just asking out of curiosity not to be a dick)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palma
I agree that GSP doesn't need to pull guard to win fights (obviously lol) but if his guard game was dangerous at all he wouldn't avoid it as much as he does. And pulling guard doesn't mean he has to jump guard standing... it just means to intentionally use his guard for offensive purposes.
I understand the logic of having an offensive guard because it can come in handy in certain situations but really why wouldnt you want to avoid being on your back? its always a dangerous position no matter how good your bjj is or how good your offensive guard is..for a guy like gsp who can easily avoid it, he probably should keep doing what he's doing cuz even when he does end up on his back even tho its rare he avoids any real danger and manages to get up
so is having a defensive guard having a weak guard? (just asking out of curiosity not to be a dick)
Well the problem is that by having a defensive guard, you are not gaining any points at all. You are basically trying to get the fight stood up.
A good guard is also a dangerous guard, where the fighter on top is susceptible to being submitted or swept. GSP just doesn't have that. Against Menjivar, he wanted to get the stand up. Against Kos, he was just trying to run out the clock. Against Hughes, it was the only time he went for a submission off his guard and instead he got reversed and sub'd in the process.
GSP is an amazing fighter but you can tell he's not as comfortable off his back and he just wants the fight stood up. He has managed to minimize the time on his back and it has worked well for him but so far from what we've seen, his guard is the weakest part of his game... yes more than head movement and such. His footwork makes up for a lot of holes he has with his head movement. It's his lack of being on his back that has made up for his weaker guard though.
__________________
Joe Rogan: "If you put Phil Baroni's brain in Pedro Rizzo's body, he would not lose."
Mike Goldberg: "and he would speak better english too"
--- UFC 45 - Rizzo vs Rodriguez match ---
I understand the logic of having an offensive guard because it can come in handy in certain situations but really why wouldnt you want to avoid being on your back? its always a dangerous position no matter how good your bjj is or how good your offensive guard is..for a guy like gsp who can easily avoid it, he probably should keep doing what he's doing cuz even when he does end up on his back even tho its rare he avoids any real danger and manages to get up
Well especially in those certain situations when your opponent is just a better wrestler (or has a better top game) and can keep you on your back having a good guard can do a number of things like subs (of course), a sweep to get a top position, or simply keep your opponent at bay because he has to worry about what can happen to him while he is in your guard.
But it's not always a dangerous position and when it comes to fighters who have world class guard is never a dangerous position... infact it's just the opposite.
A good example is to look at what Nog did to Sylvia as soon as he was able to get Tim in his guard. He subbed him unless then 10 seconds.
A good example is to look at what Nog did to Sylvia as soon as he was able to get Tim in his guard. He subbed him unless then 10 seconds.
See in Nog's case though, he wanted to take down Sylvia but got stuffed for 2 rounds (besides the last second takedown in rd1). Nog finally decided to pull guard after his TDs failed. It was almost his backup.
For GSP though, he has not needed to go down that route. I know it's good to have a plan B (much like Nog) but he has a very strong Plan A. He has continually demonstrated that he can take down his opponents successfuly most of the time. Even against BJ, if he get stuffed on the TDs, I think he will decide to do what he did in the first fight, pick him up and slam him. Plus, pulling guard against BJ is probably the dumbest idea even if you have a good guard.
I think the Alves fight will be the most interesting one for GSP in terms of pulling guard. Alves has better striking and has shown great TDD. GSP is going to have a hard time slamming Alves too. So if GSP keeps failing to take him down and is getting the worst of the standup, would he want to keep banging it out on the feet or would he actually pull guard (much like Hughes)?
__________________
Joe Rogan: "If you put Phil Baroni's brain in Pedro Rizzo's body, he would not lose."
Mike Goldberg: "and he would speak better english too"
--- UFC 45 - Rizzo vs Rodriguez match ---
See in Nog's case though, he wanted to take down Sylvia but got stuffed for 2 rounds (besides the last second takedown in rd1). Nog finally decided to pull guard after his TDs failed. It was almost his backup.
For GSP though, he has not needed to go down that route. I know it's good to have a plan B (much like Nog) but he has a very strong Plan A. He has continually demonstrated that he can take down his opponents successfuly most of the time. Even against BJ, if he get stuffed on the TDs, I think he will decide to do what he did in the first fight, pick him up and slam him. Plus, pulling guard against BJ is probably the dumbest idea even if you have a good guard.
I think the Alves fight will be the most interesting one for GSP in terms of pulling guard. Alves has better striking and has shown great TDD. GSP is going to have a hard time slamming Alves too. So if GSP keeps failing to take him down and is getting the worst of the standup, would he want to keep banging it out on the feet or would he actually pull guard (much like Hughes)?
I'm not saying GSP needs to develope a dangerous guard... I'm just saying he doesn't have one.
You're right...It'd be all over the news, hence why any major/mid level star receives it and we find out either in an MMA forum or when a fight takes place that we watch on TV or attend.(i.e. no one knew Dustin Hazelett or Joe Daddy received their black belts not too long ago until these forums or when it was said on the last UFC pay per view that Dustin did). I love how your remarks to what I say seems to be sudden babble over not understanding what I say, but everyone else seems to talk through things with me on an intelligent basis without acting 12(as I have stated before because my little sister does the "I can't understand what you're saying" shit). Oh, look at that...Never knew there was an ignore list. Fun. Might wanna talk to the other guy I reconciled with(and we came to an understanding) because he has my "proof" that you claim to be oh so a lie. Good-bye.
Linear Mode
