shamrock vs ortiz upset - Page 2

sodium_nitrate · #11 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracie jui-jitsu guy

Ken in his prime would have beaten Tito but the Ken of today doesn't train like he used to before a fight. He just milks his name for a big payday, doesn't fight to be number one anymore, just fights for the money now. And the REAL feud between Ken and Tito actually ended before their first fight at ufc 40. It was mentioned on a telecast that they had patched things up way before Ken vs Tito 1 was even considered. All the "hatred" used to build up the three fights between them was just acting. They must have had some agreement to build a public rivalry between them based on that incident after Ortiz-Mezgner II. The story was there, they just needed to ignore the fact that they had patched things up and act like they still hated each other. They knew there was alot of money to be made by exploiting that "bitter fued" (even though it really was over). The public was manipulated and bought into thier "fued" and both fighters, not to mention the UFC, made tons of money from it. Ken didn't train like he used to and fight like he used to, to prove he's the best. Instead, money was his only real motivation. He didn't really care enough about his pride or his fans anymore and it showed by him not putting on a better showing against Tito. He fought for the big paydays and that's about it. It's sad for the sport of mma and those of us that love it to see a man that once meant so much to the sport end up like that.

your insight into reality is amazing.

gracie jui-jitsu guy · #12 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 02:58 AM

Shouldn't you be under a bridge charging tolls somewhere?

sodium_nitrate · #13 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 03:01 AM

yes.

sodium_nitrate · #14 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 03:10 AM

what were you basing your statement on?

Rhino_Man · #15 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 08:17 AM

Whats with all this talk of a young Ken beating Tito???

It would never happen, Tito was LHW Champ, what was Ken??

Tito has beatin much better talent in the Octagon than Ken

And besides Ken has weak ankles, everyone knows that

Big Daddy Duker · #16 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino_Man

Whats with all this talk of a young Ken beating Tito???

It would never happen, Tito was LHW Champ, what was Ken??

Tito has beatin much better talent in the Octagon than Ken

And besides Ken has weak ankles, everyone knows that

Well...Ken was the first Superfight Champion, as well as the first guy to stuff Royce Gracie (though there weren't judges there to make it official - funny how that stuff happened when the Gracies were in control of everything...), and that's just to name a few.

Afro · #17 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino_Man

Whats with all this talk of a young Ken beating Tito???

It would never happen, Tito was LHW Champ, what was Ken??

Tito has beatin much better talent in the Octagon than Ken

And besides Ken has weak ankles, everyone knows that

Who has Tito beaten thats much better then Bas Rutten?

Ken is from pancrase he didnt face a bunch of stiffs, he had pretty good standup in his prime, pretty good takedown D, a very good submission game, solid wrestling.. he was well rounded and explosive. Tito is just a wrestler, with crappy standup, good wrestling game, very good GnP, no submission game whatsoever, and great conditioning. Overall, What Ken did to Fujita before he gassed is what he would of done to Tito except Tito wouldnt last half as long as Fujita did, Tito doesnt have Fujita's chin.

kowarrior · #18 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino_Man

Whats with all this talk of a young Ken beating Tito???

It would never happen, Tito was LHW Champ, what was Ken??

Tito has beatin much better talent in the Octagon than Ken

And besides Ken has weak ankles, everyone knows that

Ken has no ability to fight off his back. Once he's down on his back, he's screwed. His style is fodder for Tito Ortiz. Ortiz is a master at takedowns and G&P, that's all you need to destroy any version of Ken Shamrock. Nobody does it better than Ortiz in the UFC at 205.

gracie jui-jitsu guy · #19 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 01:17 PM

I've said this before, but here goes again. Ken in his prime trained like an animal before fights, preparing months at a time for just one fight. He would bring in sparring partners that would simulate his opponent's abilities so he would be better prepared for his opponent. In his prime ken had a lightning quick shoot (see his fight with Brian Johnston). Ken in his prime could not be taken down by a 260 pound former olympic wrestler in Dan Severn. Remember UFC 6? Tito was just a state champ, he is nowhere near the level that Dan Severn was as a wrestler when he fought Ken. If Dan Severn couldn't take down Ken in his prime Tito would not have been able to either. Remember, there were no weight classes back then so Ken wouldn't have to dehydrate himself like he did before his 3 fights against Tito to get down to 205. Ken would be at his natural weight the entire time leading up to the fight. And Tito couldn't demand that Ken meet him at 205 back then, he'd have to fight Ken even though Ken was heavier, just like Ken fought the much heavier Dan Severn back then. I think Ken would not have been taken down by Tito when Ken was in his prime, I think in the initial scramble it would have been Ken that would have ended up on top and grounded and pounded his way to a decision in a continuous 30 minute Super Fight.

Afro · #20 (**permalink**) 10-26-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowarrior

Ken has no ability to fight off his back. Once he's down on his back, he's screwed. His style is fodder for Tito Ortiz. Ortiz is a master at takedowns and G&P, that's all you need to destroy any version of Ken Shamrock. Nobody does it better than Ortiz in the UFC at 205.

Ken was well past his prime in there first fight and Ortiz struggled to keep him on the ground