UFC 88 Post Fight Conference (Liddell Present)

[Ramma]

Originally Posted by Masscore

If he was 30-34 years hold yea I agree. But Liddell is 38 years old and switching camps could do more harm then good at this point. Look @ Hughes, before he left MFS he was dominate, leave that camp for his own and he has gotten his ass kicked twice. Starting a new camp is not always the answer.

That isn't entirely true. Hughes fell from being at MFS. He said no one made him train because he was the big star. If he said he didn't want to train on tuesday, no one pushed him too. He left MFS after a loss to GSP and a poor victory over Lytle.

Hughes, like Liddell, is running out of steam. Fifty fights, combined with the level of physical training that he does, wears on the body.

If Hughes stayed at MFS, it would have been no different.




Guys like Chuck Liddell, Mirko Cro Cop, and Rich Franklin are LONG overdue for a change in camp.

But I agree, at this point in Liddell's career, it may do more harm than good. It will take time for new trainers to really understand Chuck before they can effectively adapt his game.

Hughes is the same story. He should have changed camps immediately if no one was motivating him to improve. He should have switched camps years ago, not last year...

[carbondioxide830]

rashad < forrest

[forrestforpresident]

Originally Posted by Masscore

Evans is just too much for Forrest IMO. He can put Forrest on his back when ever he wants and he can out box Forrest. The major advantage Forrest would have against Evans are those nasty Leg Kicks, but ummm Evans trains with Jardine so I am willing to bet he will be ready for leg kicks. Evans puts Forrest away mid way through the 3rd with some GnP.

Those who hate Evans need to get use to him, I along with some other people (namely Afro) have been right about Evans. He is the future of the LHW divison. Hes a great wrestler, boxer and has a good ground game. It was only a matter of time before he put it all together and he did on the biggest stage of his career. Evans will be LHW champion by this time next year and he is a guy that could hold on to it for a while.



If he was 30-34 years hold yea I agree. But Liddell is 38 years old and switching camps could do more harm then good at this point. Look @ Hughes, before he left MFS he was dominate, leave that camp for his own and he has gotten his ass kicked twice. Starting a new camp is not always the answer.

i dont see how rashad could hold the belt for awhile like you said this is the same guy that shouldve lost to tito if not for a point being taken away for grabbing the fence tito wouldve won. and by sayin he can hold the belt for awhile means this

rashad beats forrest
rashad beats lyota
then he will either have page or wandy
Rashad is a good fighter and impressed me last night but he is a small light-heavyweight and i think he would fare better at 185 because he would be huge at that class. Chuck kept his hands down and i promise you forrest wont

[Masscore]

Originally Posted by forrestforpresident

i dont see how rashad could hold the belt for awhile like you said this is the same guy that shouldve lost to tito if not for a point being taken away for grabbing the fence tito wouldve won. and by sayin he can hold the belt for awhile means this

rashad beats forrest
rashad beats lyota
then he will either have page or wandy
Rashad is a good fighter and impressed me last night but he is a small light-heavyweight and i think he would fare better at 185 because he would be huge at that class. Chuck kept his hands down and i promise you forrest wont

Evans beats Forrest because he can take Forrest down at will, out strike Forrest, and is an overall better fighter then Forrest. If the fight stays standing Evans KOs Forrest, if the fight goes to the ground Forrest gets GnP'd.

Evans can beat Machida too, he just showed last night he can fusterate counter strikers and make them come at him. Machida has never fought a guy with the boxing like Evans. It would be a very boring fight, but I think Evans would take the decision with a couple key Takedowns.

The guys who are gonna give Evans trouble are guys who can wrestle with him. Guys like Tito, Rampage, and Hendo are guys that will give Evans trouble. But guys like Forrest, Machida, Shogun, and Wandy, Evan should be able to handle.

[T]

Originally Posted by Masscore

Evans beats Forrest because he can take Forrest down at will, out strike Forrest, and is an overall better fighter then Forrest. If the fight stays standing Evans KOs Forrest, if the fight goes to the ground Forrest gets GnP'd.

Evans can beat Machida too, he just showed last night he can fusterate counter strikers and make them come at him. Machida has never fought a guy with the boxing like Evans. It would be a very boring fight, but I think Evans would take the decision with a couple key Takedowns.

The guys who are gonna give Evans trouble are guys who can wrestle with him. Guys like Tito, Rampage, and Hendo are guys that will give Evans trouble. But guys like Forrest, Machida, Shogun, and Wandy, Evan should be able to handle.

Why on God's green earth do you under estimate Forrest so much? I know I mentioned what little Rampage could do to him when he got him down but also look at his Tito fight, Tito had a hell of a time with him and Forrest is a much better fighter now then he was when he fought Tito stuffed the majority of Titos' take down attempts, I think he would do the same to Rashad. Your logic makes no sense to me.

Rashad is no elite striker either, are you swinging off of Evans nuts because of the Chuck fight? Don't get me wrong impressive win but come on

[darkmanfb44]

Rashad wins IMO by decision. But I'm hoping for the KO

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Masscore

If he was 30-34 years hold yea I agree. But Liddell is 38 years old and switching camps could do more harm then good at this point. Look @ Hughes, before he left MFS he was dominate, leave that camp for his own and he has gotten his ass kicked twice. Starting a new camp is not always the answer.

Hughes losing to GSP is a bit different than Liddell losing to two fighter who aren't even top 10. GSP isn't the p4p great that his fanboys make him out to be, but he's the best WW on the planet right now. Jardine and Rashad are not even close to being in his calibre of a fighter.

Originally Posted by Masscore

Evans beats Forrest because he can take Forrest down at will, out strike Forrest, and is an overall better fighter then Forrest. If the fight stays standing Evans KOs Forrest, if the fight goes to the ground Forrest gets GnP'd.

I think you're giving him a bit too much credit with the "take him down at will" shit, and I saw great striking defense from Rashad, but exactly one great punch. That doesn't make him a better striker than Forrest.

Originally Posted by Masscore

Evans can beat Machida too, he just showed last night he can fusterate counter strikers and make them come at him. Machida has never fought a guy with the boxing like Evans. It would be a very boring fight, but I think Evans would take the decision with a couple key Takedowns.

The guys who are gonna give Evans trouble are guys who can wrestle with him. Guys like Tito, Rampage, and Hendo are guys that will give Evans trouble. But guys like Forrest, Machida, Shogun, and Wandy, Evan should be able to handle.

Again, I think you're giving him way too much credit...Machida has never fought anything but a smart fight. Chuck has fought exactly one smart fight in the last three years, and last night wasn't it. He was lazy, his jab was shit, and he didn't respect Rashad at all. He got caught, not because Rashad is a great striker, but because Chuck can't keep his fucking hands up unless he's fighting Wandi. Yes, Rashad fought a great fight, he was evasive and executed a great game plan, but I don't think Forrest is going to take his first title defense nearly as lightly as Chuck took this fight...particularly after Rashad showed he actually has KO power.

I also think you are completely overlooking Forrest's BJJ.

rh

[Healzyou]

Lidell should join Greg Jackson, LOL.

[ILJO]

Originally Posted by Masscore

Evans beats Forrest because he can take Forrest down at will, out strike Forrest, and is an overall better fighter then Forrest. If the fight stays standing Evans KOs Forrest, if the fight goes to the ground Forrest gets GnP'd.

same exact arguement everyone made when Forrest went up against Shogun and Rampage. Forrest has proven that he can hang with the best and right now he is #1. I would put my money on Forrest

Originally Posted by Masscore

Evans can beat Machida too, he just showed last night he can fusterate counter strikers and make them come at him. Machida has never fought a guy with the boxing like Evans. It would be a very boring fight, but I think Evans would take the decision with a couple key Takedowns.

never fought a guy with boxing like Evans?? Rich Franklin and even Stephen Bonnar have better striking than Rashad. Maybe not pure boxing but over all stand up skill. Well maybe not so much Bonnar, even though he does have pretty good stand up, but definitely Franklin.

The only thing Evans has on Machida is wrestling and Machida's takedown defense is pretty damn good.

I see Machida picking apart Evans on the feet while stuffing the takedowns and frustrating him ala Machida vs Ortiz

Originally Posted by Masscore

The guys who are gonna give Evans trouble are guys who can wrestle with him. Guys like Tito, Rampage, and Hendo are guys that will give Evans trouble. But guys like Forrest, Machida, Shogun, and Wandy, Evan should be able to handle.

Evans is a WRESTLER who has improving stand up. While I agree that guys like Rampage and Hendo would give him trouble because they can outwrestle him and outstrike him, I completely disagree that he can "handle" guys like Machida, Shogun, and Wandy.

Maybe he can make a competitive fight out of it but he's not going to handle any of them. He would probably lose to every fighter you listed imo

[AngryJohnny]

I'd agree Rashad probably wouldn't be able to take Forrest down "at will", but if I had to bet who'd get who down first it would still be Evans. As for what would go down from there it's hard to say. Forrest does indeed have decent ground skills, I just have a hard time seeing him sub Rashad from guard as explosive as he is.

I also agree he isn't an elite striker, but it shouldn't be forgotten Forrest has shown some slop in the past. I doubt he'll make it a point to carelessy drop his hands after seeing that shit go down last night, but Forrest getting over-anxious wouldn't shock me either.

Tough call...I'd put my money on Evans if Forrest wasn't so damn big. I would almost like to see Forrest take it just to have some damn consistancy in the LHW division.