Article about Tonights Fight:Cardio & Heart Aren't Enough

Dan0 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

I've been reading picks for UFC 86 all around the internet for an hour now, and I am yet to come across a compelling case for Forrest winning this fight. I saw that Frank Trigg picked Forrest, so I kept listening for a good reason, but in the end all he could muster was the same thing others have said: Forrest just works so hard, he has so much heart, he has so much heart, and he will prove that determination pays off.

If Forrest is able to beat Quinton, it will be because of a combination of skill and heart. It will take an incredible amount of skill for Forrest to use reach and footwork against Rampage more effectively than Chuck Liddell could in their first fight. It will take an exceptional amount of skill to either avoid Rampage's takedowns, or be the first guy to submit Rampage since Sakuraba.

It kind of bothers me that people chalk up all of Forrest's accomplishments to his heart and hard work alone. One of the primary factors that got him the win over Shogun was his defensive guard. Shogun was able to get Forrest down multiple times, but he was never able to do any damage on the ground, and he gassed himself out spending minutes trying to pass guard and failing. That was an incredible performance, and it doesn't do Forrest's skill justice to act like he simply won because he had more heart and better cardio than Shogun. He pulled off an omoplata off Shogun to reverse from the bottom, a move that helped him win a round. His heart may have kept him in the right mindset to pull it off, but the skill it takes to pull that off against a guy like Shogun shouldn't be ignored.

To win tomorrow, Forrest will need a lot more than heart and cardio. His cardio is legendary, but he's never had a cardio performance as good as Quinton's against Dan Henderson, where he emerged the fresher man after five rounds of intense wrestling with a world class wrestler. Further, it's not fair to Quinton for everyone to talk as if he has no heart or desire to succeed. He was all but written off by hardcore fans two years ago, and he didn't climb back up the mountain without heart. Many lesser men would have collapsed and faded after the brutal knockouts he took.

If Forrest Griffin wins tomorrow, it'll be because of a combination of fighting skill, his will to win, and his cardio. Discounting his skill does him a disservice, and also does a disservice to the guys he beats.

All that being said, heart and cardio obviously matter. If it is a close fight going into the fifth, those things may carry the day. All this being said, I don't think Forrest has the skills to win this fight, but if anyone can make the case without using his heart and cardio as a crutch, I want to hear it.

Bloody Elbow - The Official Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) Blog of the SB Nation

I still think Page takes it.

foutch550 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 10:59 AM

Forrest isnt sneaking up on anybody anymore. Im sticking with Quinton to finish as early as round 2, no later than round 3.

Warchief · #3 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 11:18 AM

If Griffin do a lot of Thai Clinch ala Wandy in every round, Rampage is no doubt in trouble on this match...esp that Griffin is more long leged (perfect tools for the Thai Clinc).

But i am still rooting for Rampage.

Howie · #4 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 11:43 AM

I can't see Quinton trying to play around in the clinch with Forrest. I'm s ure he has learned his lesson playing that game due to the beatings he took at the hands and knees of Wanderlei.

Skill Vs. Will in this fight folks and although Forrest has a chance I think Rampage takes this one quick in the first or second round

strife · #5 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warchief

If Griffin do a lot of Thai Clinch ala Wandy in every round, Rampage is no doubt in trouble on this match...esp that Griffin is more long leged (perfect tools for the Thai Clinc).

But i am still rooting for Rampage.

Because Forrest's clinch is so dangerous right? Forrest stands no chance, and Rampage will destroy him in the clinch if it happens.

Severn · #6 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 12:45 PM

Again Shogun's injury isignored again. Tonight's ass-whippin' will be glorious.

strife · #7 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severn

Again Shogun's injury isignored again. Tonight's ass-whippin' will be glorious.

A win is a win, but you can't ignore it. A healthy Shogun would have finished Forrest in the 1st in my opinion. It was still an amazing fight regardless of who was hurt, it just sucks that it created such a lopsided fight for the title. But whatever, it won't be the first time there was a lopsided fight for any title.

mcptfc2007 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 03:03 PM

good article, still got rampage ko, 2nd or 3rd round

m_babyface_g · #9 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 04:13 PM

Fuck boys! Somebody has to be backing Forrest so I say

WAR GRIFFIN!

Also, I didn't really like this article too much. It's no secret that Rampage has great cardio and heart and the writer makes valid points for that, but Rampage isn't known for his heart and cardio as Forrest is. Rampage is known for is boxing and power (and powerbombing Arona). Anyways, the thing I really didn't like about the article is the fact the guy says "if anyone can make the case (for Forrest winning) without using his heart and cardio as a crutch, I want to hear it."

I don't think that's a very fair statement. His cardio and his heart are two of his biggest strengths, of course they're going to come up in every argument for why he'll win. It's like saying "If anybody can tell me how Rampage is going to beat Forrest without telling me he's going to make him look silly on his feet, I'd like to hear it."

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but that's how it sounds to me and that just doesn't seem to make any sense.

So, once again... WAR GRIFFIN!

Coonsht · #10 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severn

Again Shogun's injury isignored again. Tonight's ass-whippin' will be glorious.

As long as we're talking about ignoring injuries, you may recall that Forest fought with a bad shoulder that night.

I say don't ever count the man out prematurely. His progress over the past 3 years has been amazing. With every mistake made he seems to come away with a lesson learned and added tools to his arsenal.

Page is a beast. No doubt about it. He's not invincible, though. Utilizing the right game plan is a necessity with him. You damn well better believe Forest is walking into that octagon with a solid plan. I'm confident Randy has ensured it.