BJ Penn To Fight The Winner Of GSP vs. Jon Fitch

[Nate_Deezy]

Originally Posted by Palma

You know, everyone makes such a big deal about vets and noobs, about rep points and post counts... I don't. I don't give a shit about any of that. We are all just people who are posting on the internet. People make me out to be someone who thinks that I am better then everyone because of forum status or whatever... I really don't care about it. I am always comming from the place that I am just another poster with an opinion. That being said: as a poster with an opinion please don't waste my time. I am really busy and I like posting on this forum and I would rather it count towards something constructive (even if it is etreamly argumentitive). done and done I hope.



I don't disagree with that, but you are even saying up until now recently Penn has failed to show his dedication. Which means you even you are admitting that Penn is taking steps towards being the best fighter he can be as well.



I think that's a good point, but the difference between Penn lossing to Hughes and GSP lossing to Serra is that Penn was totally winning that fight for 2 rounds as where GSP never had a handle on the situation. The other difference was Penn was fighting one of the most dominant Champs in UFC history while GSP was fighting a fighter that lost his contract from too many losses and then won a title shot from a reality show.



I would say based off of what I have seen from GSP's 3 round decision win over Koscheck I wouldn't say he looks fresher as the fight goes on, but I think he can certainly hang for 5 rounds. But, it's never been questioned and until it has then there will always be a question mark. It could be more of a mental issue then a cardio issue as well. I think Penn is mentally tougher then GSP and that is 50% of the fight in the later rounds (the other being 50% cardio imo).



I don't see how anyone can say Penn has not beaten Elite competition when he has beaten Matt Hughes and Gomi... Alves, Koscheck, and Karo are now elite fighters? I wouldn't even say Fitch is an elite fighter at this point.... I wouldn't consider Sherk an elite fighter but he is certainly on the same level as Alves, Karo, and Koscheck.

Sorry, but not just from me you are going to hear that Penn is the best fighter ever. Even Bas Rutten thinks Penn is the best fighter ever. Penn has two unavenged losses to GSP and Machida... both were razor thin decisions. He has wins over Uno, Din, Serra, Sherk, Stevenson, Renzo, Rodrigo, Pulver, Gomi, and Hughes. But that is not even why people consider him the best. He is considered the best because of his all around skill level. He is very comparable to Willie Mays imo... he didn't have the numbers to prove he was the best. He was the best in the way he played. Baseball experts used to say "If you don't think Mays was the best then you haven't seen him play."

Alright....thank you for this post. See Palma, we can be friends afterall lol.

As for the elite fighters, I stand by my statement that Koscheck, Alves, Fitch, and Karo have all done more in the WW division than Penn has as of late. I agree that being the champion of the division, which Penn has been, accounts for more accomplishment overall, but all I'm saying is that as of right now, those fighters are bigger factors at WW than Penn is. Of course, Penn would be just a couple of wins away from proving my point of view wrong, and I do believe he could beat any of the fighters I mentioned on a good day. The thing is, I believe he should have to do that before he gets a title shot before all of the guys who have worked their way up the WW ladder.

Originally Posted by KnowledgeKnown

You had some great points until this imo. Sherk isn't a threat? wow how things change. Do you remember the countless posts about how Sherk was going to give Penn a beating. Many people were positive of this. Not saying you did itbecause i'm too lazy to go back and check. lol. However it's easy to say Sherk is not top notch now.

Sherk is better at LW than Karo is at WW. No doubt in my mind. Thiago may very well prove to be an elite fighter, but I don't believe he or Kos deserve to be in the same sentence with GSP or Penn right now.

I don't believe I ever said Sherk would be a huge test for BJ. I looked at their common opponents before their fight, those being GSP and Hughes, and whereas BJ beat Hughes once and took GSP to a split decision, Sherk lost a unanimous decision to Hughes and was stopped by GSP. Sherk is a very talented fighter, but I believe he would lose to the fighters I mentioned aside from maybe Karo, who Sherk has already beaten twice I believe.

[leedogg900]

i dont mind seeing this rematch. not at all

this time i think gsp learns from his mistakes. he defends himself better and picks his shots, and uses lots of leg kicks to slow penn down.

the big question is how often will gsp be able to take penn down. and when he gets penn down, will he be able to control penn and be active enough not to get stood up.

gsp does have the ability to win on the feet, using kicks and punches to outscore penn. but penn has the ability to finish the fight on the feet at any time. normally id say gsp has the same possibility but penns chin is too iron, i dont think gsp can finish him on the feet. i think gsp throws more combinations and if he avoids getting caught, can outscore penn. he just needs to make sure hes not on the feet for too long and defends himself.

i think if minimal time is spent on the feet, gsp can outstrike penn for short periods then work off the takedown. but if the fight stays on the feet for too long, gsp is bound to get caught and eithor opened up or hurt. gsp has a really good chin as well but hes more easily cut then penn, and damage is a big factor in fights.

with that said i could also see penn come out, pick gsp off with jabs and hurt him a little. then eventually cause a stoppage by tko or cut. the thing i noticed about gsps last fight with penn, its the first time hes ever been uncomfterable in someones guard, he almost looked lost at times. but his bjj has improved quite a bit since their first fight, so i hope hes able to be more controlling and cause more damage.

i think this will basically be a spawl and brawl tactic by bj penn, and gsp will come in striking a little and looking for the takedown. the winner imo will be the one who can execute their gameplan on that night.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Stacked

yea i know he didnt make weight but i stated before if he beats Diego then i dont understand how this makes since when Bj hasnt beat anyone at 170 in a while

i get what you are saying but what has penn done? other the beating hughes he has lost to GSP and Hughes and Alves has won like 6 in a row i think

what im saying is yes there is some good points why BJ lost to Hughes the 2nd time and many think he beat GSP but a wins a win and a loss is a loss and recently Bj has beat Jens Joe Daddy and Sherk, in LW, and you cant tell me any of those guys could beat Alves

Dude, Alves lost to Spencer Fischer. Yes Stevenson and Sherk can both beat Alves... Alves has no real ground game. All his grappling is based on speed and athleticism. If he fights anyone with equal physical abilities that is much better in BJJ and the fight hits the ground he can certainly lose.

[Stacked]

Originally Posted by Palma

Dude, Alves lost to Spencer Fischer. Yes Stevenson and Sherk can both beat Alves... Alves has no real ground game. All his grappling is based on speed and athleticism. If he fights anyone with equal physical abilities that is much better in BJJ and the fight hits the ground he can certainly lose.

yea back in 05. fisher couldn't beat him now
i don't like Alves at all and im a joe daddy fan and i don't think Joe could beat him. Sherk might could lay on him for 3 rounds but i don't think he could keep alves down and alves would KO him. and alves has faced some guys with good ground game and beat them deff. not has good as bjs but maybe one day we will see them fight and that will settle the dis agreement but prob. not. im all for a gsp bj rematch bc i dont like either and i want to see one get hurt. but i dont think its right for alves to get screwed if he also beats diego. maybe diego will prove ur point

[ozzy2525]

To tell you the truth I have not seen BJ with good cardio at WW. If BJ has his cardio down, I would have to flip a coin in picking either to win. GSP could very well just take BJ down and peper him with strikes for the whole fight. While BJ has amazing BJJ I have never seen him submit from bottom, this is mainly because he likes to be on top but still.
Man I can't wait for this fight. Fitch don't fuck it up.

BTW: I want to ask all of you a question. How do you feel about BJ holding the WW and LW belts and defending them both? Do you think that it would work?

[Stacked]

Originally Posted by ozzy2525

To tell you the truth I have not seen BJ with good cardio at WW. If BJ has his cardio down, I would have to flip a coin in picking either to win. GSP could very well just take BJ down and peper him with strikes for the whole fight. While BJ has amazing BJJ I have never seen him submit from bottom, this is mainly because he likes to be on top but still.
Man I can't wait for this fight. Fitch don't fuck it up.

BTW: I want to ask all of you a question. How do you feel about BJ holding the WW and LW belts and defending them both? Do you think that it would work?

i don't mind seeing someone holding two belts at once. as long as they defend both equally.. I wouldnt want BJ defending the WW more then the LW. It could work tho. BJ would be good to do it bc he doesnt have prob. making 155 and he likes 170 but i just dont see him beating GSP

[Dave_44]

I hope he doesnt leave 155. I hope he doesnt think winning three fights at 155 makes him the most dominate 155 ever. I think there are still good fighters developing at 155 so theres no reason he cant go back and forth while these guys get better and fight them when there readdy. With that being said I dont even think he will beat GSP at 170 so it wont be an issue. I also hope if he does lose to GSP he does go back down to 155 for good I hope he fight guys like Diego maybe alves or even have a third with Hughes (even though its toolate for Hughes and BJ would take it in the first) it would still be good for him to cement his "legacy" I m getting tired of all these guys saying there gonna go up and down in weight seriously if I was Dana I would say at the very least 5 wins as champ in your class before there is even talk of moving. Like look at anderson it makes sense for him to jump up and down because guys cant develop fast enough for him to fight at 185 but he won quite a few in a row so I don't see any reason why moving should be an issue

[Severn]

Penn has said it several times he doesn't care about having a reign as champ, he wants to collect titles. I really don't know where he wants to go from WW tho'.

[FidgitUK]

I hope this happens in Birmingham because then I wont care if it's free or not I will be cage side.

[KnowledgeKnown]

Originally Posted by Severn

Penn has said it several times he doesn't care about having a reign as champ, he wants to collect titles. I really don't know where he wants to go from WW tho'.

In the video interview on the other thread he alluded to a move to 185 after he cleans out both divisions.