Fitch receives black belt

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by rivethead

That's because most people who make p4p lists are idiots and don't understand what p4p means...neither of Fitch nor GSP belong on a top 5 p4p list...they're both huge WW's who are generally much bigger than their opponents. When you factor in GSP's loss to Serra [regardless of whether he avenged it or not] he's just not great p4p.

Uh uh, I think you're taking term p4p to literally. It's purpose is to compare fighters as if everybody fought in same weightclass. There is no reason why ability to cut weight should work against fighters p4p status.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Greenish

Uh uh, I think you're taking term p4p to literally. It's purpose is to compare fighters as if everybody fought in same weightclass. There is no reason why ability to cut weight should work against fighters p4p status.

I disagree, I don't think you are taking it literally enough. Yes, the term was coined to compare fighters if everyone fought in the same weight class, but actually comparing ringweights lends an element of reality to an otherwise very subjective process...if you ignore fighter's sizes relative to their opponents, it becomes entirely guesswork with no standard of measurement. This is how it's been done for years by people who know how to use the term appropriately.

Conversely, there is no reason to rank a fighter who is physically bigger than his opponent as a great p4p fighter, and every reason to penalize a fighter who loses to a smaller opponent.

rh

[pimpslappd]

Originally Posted by thefirm0

they are evenly matched in everything but personality and striking.

hahaha

[Palma]

Originally Posted by atj-lucko

I am staring to think the term "black belt" doesn't mean anything anymore.
There are degrees of a true black belt, and Fitch is not the same as Jacare's black belt.

Jacare is a Red Belt. And there are variying degrees of Black Belts. Dave Camarillo (Fitch's bJJ instructor) is not the kind of instructor that gives out any promotions lightly. If he gave Fitch a Black Belt I'm sure he deserves it. Fitch's BJJ game may not translate as well to MMA without the gi... but I just can't see Camarillo giving a Black Belt to anyone just because they fight MMA... if that were the case then Swick would have had his Black Belt a long time ago.

[TapOut27]

I thought helio was the only redbelt?!

[Palma]

Originally Posted by TapOut27

I thought helio was the only redbelt?!

Nope... after 7th degree Black Belt comes Red Belt... I don't know exactly how many there are, but Jacare, Rorion, and Rickson are all Red Belts. My instructor who is a 4th degree Black Belt trains under Master Matsur who is a 9th degree Red Belt that trains under Helio.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by Palma

Jacare is a Red Belt. And there are variying degrees of Black Belts. Dave Camarillo (Fitch's bJJ instructor) is not the kind of instructor that gives out any promotions lightly. If he gave Fitch a Black Belt I'm sure he deserves it. Fitch's BJJ game may not translate as well to MMA without the gi... but I just can't see Camarillo giving a Black Belt to anyone just because they fight MMA... if that were the case then Swick would have had his Black Belt a long time ago.

Thats what i was trying to say but you just got it out so much better.

How is Jacare a red belt. I am not questioning you at all but i really don't know i am just asking. I just thought their were only 2 or 3 red belts and 2 of them being Gracies.

Is he a red/black belt because i see they give them now.

Like i have said in the past i don't know that much about bjj other then what i have learned hear, watched and read about. But i have only been following it for 2 years so like i said i am not familiar with all this stuff.

Black belts can receive degrees for as long as they train or teach the art. At 8th , the black belt is replaced by an alternately red and black belt. At 9th & 10th degree the belt becomes solid red. Only the founding Gracie Brothers Helio,Carlos & his brothers will ever have the 10th degree red belt. The Gracie family members who are 9th degrees belt holders are Carlson Gracie, Reylson Gracie and Rorion Gracie who was promoted on October 27, 2003 by his father Helio Gracie.

See i have read this, and then other things saying shit completely different.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Dork8503

Thats what i was trying to say but you just got it out so much better.

How is Jacare a red belt. I am not questioning you at all but i really don't know i am just asking. I just thought their were only 2 or 3 red belts and 2 of them being Gracies.

Is he a red/black belt because i see they give them now.

Like i have said in the past i don't know that much about bjj other then what i have learned hear, watched and read about. But i have only been following it for 2 years so like i said i am not familiar with all this stuff.

Jacare was given his Red Belt after he was promoted from seventh degree Black Belt... I don't know why everyone thinks there are only one or two Red Belts in the world. From what I gather there are 30 to 100 Red Belts. I've met Master Matsor myself and he still trains under Helio... I'm not sure who promoted Jacare to Red Belt but he certainly deserves is it. He is easily the best BJJ fighter from our generation and probably the 2nd best of all time behind Rickson.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by Palma

Jacare was given his Red Belt after he was promoted from seventh degree Black Belt... I don't know why everyone thinks there are only one or two Red Belts in the world. From what I gather there are 30 to 100 Red Belts. I've met Master Matsor myself and he still trains under Helio... I'm not sure who promoted Jacare to Red Belt but he certainly deserves is it. He is easily the best BJJ fighter from our generation and probably the 2nd best of all time behind Rickson.

So in 10 years will we just say Jacare by armbar lol

Can i see something that says he is a red belt. Can you give me anything that shows me another Red belt besides a fucking Gracie lol.

The only Jacare i can find that is high ranked bjj is Romero "Jacare" Cavalcanti Says he was one of few people to get awarded a bb under Rolls and the last i could find was 6th degree

What rank is Roger Gracie.

I find it interesting to read about these people, i usually most things to do with any type of Martial Art interesting

[DemonPig]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I disagree, I don't think you are taking it literally enough. Yes, the term was coined to compare fighters if everyone fought in the same weight class, but actually comparing ringweights lends an element of reality to an otherwise very subjective process...if you ignore fighter's sizes relative to their opponents, it becomes entirely guesswork with no standard of measurement. This is how it's been done for years by people who know how to use the term appropriately.

Conversely, there is no reason to rank a fighter who is physically bigger than his opponent as a great p4p fighter, and every reason to penalize a fighter who loses to a smaller opponent.

rh

So using your logic only small guys (in their respective weight class) are allowed to be at the top of the P4P list, right?