Dream 4 *Spoilers*

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

Mayhem is better on the ground and in wrestling then Anderson, so when Jacare controlled him in both those areas it goes to show you how skilled he is. He would sub Anderson if given one chance too, and Anderson has bad takedown D (he has been taken to the ground in round one in all of his last 4 fights.) There Jacare would sub him

I never thought that his mma skills are on Silva's level, but statistically he should be able to take Anderson down and sub him.

I don't know about Mayhem being better on the ground, wrestling maybe but on the ground no.

Also you say Anderson's take down d is bad, well it has shown signs of improvement. Specially when he stopped Hendo from taking him down.

Anderson is much better off his back then Mayhem, and when you add in Anderson is more active imo that makes a difference.

Not to mention, can Jacare survive long enough on the feet to take it to the ground.

But just because he beat Mayhem does not mean he can beat Anderson. Jason is a step in the right direction but its not much more then that.

[neonatural45]

Originally Posted by ILJO

Yea thats what they said about lutter and marquardt, and hendo shoulda been able to take him down and pound him out...

I was very impressed by Jacare but to say that he could beat Anderson at this point in his career is unjustified imo

Are you comparing Marquardt and Lutter's BJJ to Jacare's?

Or are you saying that since Anderson was able to avoid getting beating on the ground against them then he would survive against Jacare too?


Both are incorrect

Originally Posted by Dork8503

I don't know about Mayhem being better on the ground, wrestling maybe but on the ground no.

Also you say Anderson's take down d is bad, well it has shown signs of improvement. Specially when he stopped Hendo from taking him down.

Anderson is much better off his back then Mayhem, and when you add in Anderson is more active imo that makes a difference.

Not to mention, can Jacare survive long enough on the feet to take it to the ground.

But just because he beat Mayhem does not mean he can beat Anderson. Jason is a step in the right direction but its not much more then that.

Anderson could definatley knock Jacare out before Jacare ever shoots, but then again so could alot of people. Jacare is not going to try and stand with Anderson, and would probably train only takedowns for that fight.

Mayhem's ground game is on a different level then Anderson's, and to say that Anderson is more active off his back then Mayhem is B.S., When Hendo had him on his back he held him there (in PRIDE they both would have gotten Yellow cards), Against Franklin he didn't go for a sub, against Marquardt he just laid there and held Marquardt.

But trying to be active on the ground against Jacare would be stupid of him anyways, Jacare would counter his mistakes in his sleep.


Anderson has been put on his back early in his last 4 fights

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

Are you comparing Marquardt and Lutter's BJJ to Jacare's?

Or are you saying that since Anderson was able to avoid getting beating on the ground against them then he would survive against Jacare too?


Both are incorrect



Anderson could definatley knock Jacare out before Jacare ever shoots, but then again so could alot of people. Jacare is not going to try and stand with Anderson, and would probably train only takedowns for that fight.

Mayhem's ground game is on a different level then Anderson's, and to say that Anderson is more active off his back then Mayhem is B.S., When Hendo had him on his back he held him there (in PRIDE they both would have gotten Yellow cards), Against Franklin he didn't go for a sub, against Marquardt he just laid there and held Marquardt.

But trying to be active on the ground against Jacare would be stupid of him anyways, Jacare would counter his mistakes in his sleep.


Anderson has been put on his back early in his last 4 fights

You do realize that his bjj isn't going to be the same as it was when he was just grappling or doing bjj tournys. I mean getting punched in the face kinda makes a huge difference.

Just because Jacare has better bjj then Nate or Lutter that does not mean he has a better ground game. Because if you are actually saying that, then i really do not know what to tell you.

So this is monkey see monkey do. I mean just because Hendo, Franklin, Lutter and Nate took Anderson down, that means Jacare is going to. I mean fuck Hendo is only a world class wrestler.

Also I have never really seen Mayhem show good take down D, and Jacare wasn't exactly taking him down at will, he had to try damn hard.

Not to mention a fight in a cage is much harder imo to take someone down.

Also you think Anderson wouldn't train his ass off in take down defense in a fight with Jacare.

You are really over estimating Jacare and really underestimating Anderson.

In his last 4 fights he beaten better.

Right now Anderson chews Jacare up an spits him out.

Not to say Jacare one day won't be a beast but right now Anderson hurts him bad.

I don't even think Jacare could beat GSP. Hell i think GSP would knock him out or tko him in the first.

Jacare has beaten nothing but cans until Miller, and even got knocked out by a no body.

[snakerattle79]

miller should be agressive on throwing more strikes against a grappler next time

[Ubermensch]

Originally Posted by Dork8503

You do realize that his bjj isn't going to be the same as it was when he was just grappling or doing bjj tournys. I mean getting punched in the face kinda makes a huge difference.

Just because Jacare has better bjj then Nate or Lutter that does not mean he has a better ground game. Because if you are actually saying that, then i really do not know what to tell you.

So this is monkey see monkey do. I mean just because Hendo, Franklin, Lutter and Nate took Anderson down, that means Jacare is going to. I mean fuck Hendo is only a world class wrestler.

Also I have never really seen Mayhem show good take down D, and Jacare wasn't exactly taking him down at will, he had to try damn hard.

Not to mention a fight in a cage is much harder imo to take someone down.

Also you think Anderson wouldn't train his ass off in take down defense in a fight with Jacare.

You are really over estimating Jacare and really underestimating Anderson.

In his last 4 fights he beaten better.

Right now Anderson chews Jacare up an spits him out.

Not to say Jacare one day won't be a beast but right now Anderson hurts him bad.

I don't even think Jacare could beat GSP. Hell i think GSP would knock him out or tko him in the first.

Jacare has beaten nothing but cans until Miller, and even got knocked out by a no body.

First I am with you Anderson takes the fight for right now. But I think you are really underrating Jacare. He has over and over again handled being on the ground with some one punching him in the face first second did you watch the miller fight?? He did take Jason down at will. He even did a double to him. His take downs arnt BJJ they are wrestling and he controls the hips quite easily when he does them.

To say Anderson chews him out and spits him up is silly. Jacare has way better ground game in MMA than anyone Anderson has fought. (I think you are hating on him because you always do one some one you think is one dimensional)

Jacare is only going to get better he is training at Extreme Couture on the side now. Wand, Randy, Forrest etc etc are working with him. To think in a year or two he wont be able to beat Anderson is naive. Because he already will if it gets on the ground today. He will lose if he fights him today because his standup sucks and is so obviously telegraphed that Anderson will make him a punching bag if he doesnt take him down.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

First I am with you Anderson takes the fight for right now. But I think you are really underrating Jacare. He has over and over again handled being on the ground with some one punching him in the face first second did you watch the miller fight?? He did take Jason down at will. He even did a double to him. His take downs arnt BJJ they are wrestling and he controls the hips quite easily when he does them.

To say Anderson chews him out and spits him up is silly. Jacare has way better ground game in MMA than anyone Anderson has fought. (I think you are hating on him because you always do one some one you think is one dimensional)

Jacare is only going to get better he is training at Extreme Couture on the side now. Wand, Randy, Forrest etc etc are working with him. To think in a year or two he wont be able to beat Anderson is naive. Because he already will if it gets on the ground today. He will lose if he fights him today because his standup sucks and is so obviously telegraphed that Anderson will make him a punching bag if he doesnt take him down.

first i never said Jacare is one dimensional, and i never said he wouldn't get better.

Yes i did watch the Jacare Miller fight, well i watched a slide show of it. I was impressed by Jacare in that fight, i never once said i wasn't.

But we are talking Miller and Anderson, their is a huge difference.

Also Jacare has been cake fed fights imo. People that he is suited to beat. Now imo Miller was a HUGE step up from what he normally fights an he did damn well.

Also i never said he couldn't beat Anderson in a year or 2. I said right now Anderson beats him.

Right now Anderson chews Jacare up an spits him out.

Not to say Jacare one day won't be a beast but right now Anderson hurts him bad.

See i never said he couldn't beat him, i just said right now.

And i am not hating on him. How is saying Anderson beats him hating on him. I am sorry i guess saying Anderson (the guy that has been dominating everyone, including top ranked fighters) is hating.

I don't hate one everyone, i just hated on Houston Alexander for a while, and guess what, i was right he turned out to be 1 dim.

But again i never said Jacare was 1 dim.

[Ubermensch]

Also I have never really seen Mayhem show good take down D, and Jacare wasn't exactly taking him down at will, he had to try damn hard.

All I am saying is that he was taking him down at will, and it wont be a cake walk for Anderson even right now, again I think Anderson will win, but he better not let it get to the ground and if he does he better get up as soon as he can. Or he will lose I honestly think he wouldn't let it get there not with the skill set of them both right now.

[neonatural45]

So Dork are you saying that Nate or Lutter are better then Jacare on the ground becuase you don't think Jacare can handle getting hit from the bottom?


and as for Silva training his ass off in takedown D, I am pretty sure he has already been doing that considering who the UFC has been giving him (Lutter, Marquardt, Hendo) I just think that Jacare can take him down, or even pull gaurd and sweep (not that Jacare's sweeps are world class or anything, but he would be able to sweep Anderson).


Jacare has better wrestling then Marqaurdt... and waaaaaay better then Lutter, so saying that just becuase he has better BJJ doesn't mean he is better on the ground is stupid, becuase he is on a different level.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

So Dork are you saying that Nate or Lutter are better then Jacare on the ground becuase you don't think Jacare can handle getting hit from the bottom?


and as for Silva training his ass off in takedown D, I am pretty sure he has already been doing that considering who the UFC has been giving him (Lutter, Marquardt, Hendo) I just think that Jacare can take him down, or even pull gaurd and sweep (not that Jacare's sweeps are world class or anything, but he would be able to sweep Anderson).


Jacare has better wrestling then Marqaurdt... and waaaaaay better then Lutter, so saying that just becuase he has better BJJ doesn't mean he is better on the ground is stupid, becuase he is on a different level.

I am not saying that any of them have better bjj, just from what i have seen Nate imo is better on the ground. Maybe it has something to do with experience or just the comp they have faced.

I actually like Jacare and hate Nate so it isn't bias fan talk with that.

I never said he can't handle being hit, i just said being hit makes a big difference.