wouldnt count the possibly completly out. if his speed isnt that effected by the weight change. he has the capability to tko rampage or even ko him.
on the other hand, on the ground is kind of a cone toss. because anderson could choke him out if he hurts him with strikes first. or if rampage possibly slams andeson if the opportunity happens he can end with strikes on the ground as well.
I don't care how many wars Wand has been in and how much worse he is now, until Rampage shows he can defend the clinch with something other then his chin or head, I pick any solid muay thai fighter over him. Let's see him fight Thiago Silva or Luis Cane, he'll probably struggle to a decision at best.
BTW, I like Rampage, he's solid, but he's not as good as he talks, and he looks like the exact same fighter with Juanito he did with Oyama. Oh yeah, Marcelo Garcia is the man.
this is just my opinion but i think the ufc rules suit rampage's style, as pride rules were more beneficial to muy thai fighters. now rampage could throw elbows to the head forcing the clinch to be more dangerous for his opponents
and imagine the elbows rampage used to throw to the body, landing straight on someones temple or jaw. plus he has a cage to press people against and drop elbows. instead of stopping the fight and resetting due to the ropes.
your right though he is the same fighter. with better cardio, sparring partners, coach, confidence, reflexes. plus hes not as gun shy as he was later on near to the end of his career in pride.[/quote]
Muay thai fighters are more deadly with elbows then Rampage will ever be. Especially standing in a clinch. His cardio, coach, and sparring partners might be better, but Rampage was always confident. Witness his pre-Shogun fight interview "the only way I lose is if I slip and break my toe. No, Shogun has no chance in this fight, no chance of making it out of the first round." 7 minutes later he was in a heap with a shattered rib. As far as his reflexes go, he's the exact same, I've watched all of his fights, he's always had real good reflexes and defense. Maybe he sharpened it, but it's not a big change. As far as him being gun shy, let's see what happens when he fights either Wand, Shogun, A. Silva or Machida and they put a clinch on him. Something tells me Juanito never trained Oscar De La Hoya how to defend a muay thai clinch from an expert.
For a guy who followed mma since UFC 1 (how many times have I heard that?) you obviously never followed PRIDE, thus your opinion on this said topic is clearly lacking knowledge and understanding. Anybody who followed PRIDE remembered his fights vs Wanderlei and the build up for both fights, so clearly you never watched it during it's time and are pulling up ghost quotes (Rampage would never say he had no time to prepare for his fights vs Wand when it's obvious that's b.s.) Rampage's stand up has improved "tremendously" since Juanito?? He dominated Chuck in PRIDE, more then he did in the UFC fight, standing and on the ground. Did his fights vs Lindland and Don Sik convince you he's so much better at striking now?? Or the fact Eastman and Henderson were both landing on him?? I find it amusing you use mma math considering Wand and Rampage have already fought twice. Ever heard of styles make fights?? Wanderlei beat Hendo as well. Rampage had an easier time with Arona, kind of, and Wand absolutely destroyed Sakuraba, a guy that tapped Rampage. I mean Rampage and Hendo could've went either way, and that fight didn't show any technical brilliance from Rampage, as a matter of fact none of his fights since joining Juanito have, he's the exact same fighter. I have all of his fights including KOTC on DVD, he is one of my favorite fighters, but that doesn't cloud my judgements in regards to the fact he's real good, but not great.
Wanderlei is way past his prime now. You keep bringing up his losses. Losing to the most feared HW striker at the time (other then Hunt, who Silva also fought) in the semi-finals of the OWGP is nothing to be ashamed of. Last time I checked, Rampage was struggling to decisions vs Lindland and Don Sik and putting on a horrible performance against Yokoi at that same time. Also, how can you say Rampage has been more impressive against stiffer competition?? Like who?? Chuck and Igor?? Wanderlei beat CC (although an official draw), should've got the nod vs Mark Hunt, destroyed Saku three times, destroyed Rampage twice, beat Yoshida twice, and was a one time grand prix champ, two time runner up. Rampage was a finalist, once, he got smoked by Shogun in the first round in the next tournament, and was no where to be soon during the OWGP, he had basically left PRIDE after putting on five pathetic performances in a row (Silva 2, Ninja, Shogun, Yokoi, Don Sik).
Don't forget Wand was the first to KO Fujita, went 5 years undefeated at 205 and beat all comers, including your boy. Lol you brought up Lindland, I didn't think any Rampage fan would dare bring up a fight he arguably lost. Silva beat Hendo the first time way more decisively when they first fought then when Rampage beat Hendo. And yes, Chuck beat Wanderlei, a guy Rampage owns, but Wand owns Rampage, the old Chute Boxe does period, so what's your point?? Obviously Rampage is a "chump", because Wand murked him twice. On top of that, he's fought way better opponents then Rampage and had a way longer run of dominance.
"Lol, maybe his "change so much" comes from the fact that he's been winning while Wand has been getting his ass whipped every chance he gets."
Fickle fans only remember the present. Last time I checked this interview is about the past, and Wand's record, and last time I checked it's better then Rampage's with bigger wins and better opponents. Maybe if Rampage was fighting Mark Hunt and CroCop instead of Don Sik and Yokoi like Wand was he'd be a little over the hill too. Wanderlei is a warrior. No mma fan in their right man would ever say Rampage has a better legacy, which is what we are talking about here. Only a blind guy on Rampage's jock would make that argument, and use the last 3 fights in each guy's career to do so, and that's where you come in.
"Seems to me like your just a hater and you don't even make sense. To down play the fact that Rampage has been on a serious tear and has beaten fighters many fans have said he would never beat is just stupid."
I've obviously watched Rampage longer then you have, and what mma fan said he wouldn't beat Lindland, Eastman, Chuck and Hendo??? That's 'just stupid', because Lindland is a MW, Eastman is a nobody, Chuck is a guy Rampage owns (much like Wand and Rampage) and Hendo, while being a tough guy, had no business wearing the PRIDE 205 title because he never did anything in that division up until beating Wand in PRIDE. Getting tapped out by Lil Nog in 3 minutes doesn't qualify. You've probably never saw that fight though.
Oh yeah, as far as Machida goes, you claim I am biased and don't use knowledge, then proceed to say Rampage is a better striker. LOL. Karate ace, muay thai expert?? Hmmm, vs a street boxer with good defense but light years behind Machida in terms of technique and skill. Rampage would have to hit Machida to use that power you keep talking about. Machida is a better striker, better on the ground, better technically, and he held his own vs Sam Greco, I'm pretty sure he could handle Rampage's "improved striking". Please educate yourself on the topic before calling me biased and questioning my mma knowledge, it's obvious to anybody on here that knows mma, I'm the one who knows what they're talking about, and you're the guy who just started cheering for Rampage after the Chuck fight. Lindland?? Lol you brought that up as a big win?? Lol.
I had to rep you for that.
Very good post man
Don't mind Harlem he fell down a few months back an hit his head.
Don't mind Harlem he fell down a few months back an hit his head.
Lol thanks, much respect. I was wondering what happened to Harlem.
By the way, personally, I think if A. Silva put on 15 lbs. of muscle he'd have no trouble beating Rampage, seeing as how he's a better technician in regards to striking than Shogun and Wand. Sure Rampage could take him down, but I think he'd get lit up trying to close that distance. That's just my opinion though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145
Your answering yourself. If Rampage has handled 2 guys standing that have both destroyed Wand, then obviously some progress has taken place.
Just think to yourself, can you really see Wand withstanding a hard right hand by Rampage right now? It's not like Page wont hit him, and I'm almost positive he's learned to defend those knees now. Seeing how Page is permorming now, how the hell is Wand going to win? Forget the past, look at now.
I just saw this, last time I promise, I don't want to hi-jack this thread and apologize if I already did so. Rampage handled Chuck BEFORE both of his fights vs Wand, and Wand beat Hendo BEFORE both of his fights vs Rampage, honestly, what the hell are you talking about?? Can I see Wand withstanding a right hand from Rampage?? Hmmm...yes. Seeing as how he withstood 25 from Chuck. Lol @ "I'm ALMOST positive he's learned to defend those knees"...damn bro. I'm starting to think this is Andre Jackson, Rampage's cousin. Just in case you forgot, a counter right hook from Wand is what lit up Rampage in the 2nd fight, and the left-right hook combination is what it started it in the 1st fight. Rampage's decline in both fights started with hands, the clinch was just the closer. I don't care if Rampage wins 20 fights in a row, and Wand loses 15, until Rampage handled a muay thai ace who can brawl and has a good chin, Wand OWNS Rampage.
Thought I'd add this for Harlem, my way of saying goodbye to this thread...
Goodnight
Last edited by Ramma; 03-28-2008 at 07:13 AM.
Reason: Quadruple post? are you kidding?
Muay thai fighters are more deadly with elbows then Rampage will ever be. Especially standing in a clinch. His cardio, coach, and sparring partners might be better, but Rampage was always confident. Witness his pre-Shogun fight interview "the only way I lose is if I slip and break my toe. No, Shogun has no chance in this fight, no chance of making it out of the first round." 7 minutes later he was in a heap with a shattered rib. As far as his reflexes go, he's the exact same, I've watched all of his fights, he's always had real good reflexes and defense. Maybe he sharpened it, but it's not a big change. As far as him being gun shy, let's see what happens when he fights either Wand, Shogun, A. Silva or Machida and they put a clinch on him. Something tells me Juanito never trained Oscar De La Hoya how to defend a muay thai clinch from an expert.[/quote]
never said he was better than them. i was trying to say is he got powerful elbows. if he does land it could be crucial. hes always been confident but gun shy in the ring. rampage was a lot more defensive the second time he fought silva and when he fought shogun.
sharpening your defense is always important. so a little improvement is still improvement. at least his reflexes have been getting better. while, sadly, wands reflex's are not as they once were. jardine has a good chance of beating silva. he has that awkward style mixed with a decent immitation of holland's style of kick boxing.
shogun's really been through two major injuries at such a young age. could be a factor if they fight again.
but a. silva and machida have the best chance of beating rampage imo. both for the same reasons. well roundedness plus a excellent. power to speed ratio.
Muay thai fighters are more deadly with elbows then Rampage will ever be. Especially standing in a clinch. His cardio, coach, and sparring partners might be better, but Rampage was always confident. Witness his pre-Shogun fight interview "the only way I lose is if I slip and break my toe. No, Shogun has no chance in this fight, no chance of making it out of the first round." 7 minutes later he was in a heap with a shattered rib. As far as his reflexes go, he's the exact same, I've watched all of his fights, he's always had real good reflexes and defense. Maybe he sharpened it, but it's not a big change. As far as him being gun shy, let's see what happens when he fights either Wand, Shogun, A. Silva or Machida and they put a clinch on him. Something tells me Juanito never trained Oscar De La Hoya how to defend a muay thai clinch from an expert.
never said he was better than them. i was trying to say is he got powerful elbows. if he does land it could be crucial. hes always been confident but gun shy in the ring. rampage was a lot more defensive the second time he fought silva and when he fought shogun.
sharpening your defense is always important. so a little improvement is still improvement. at least his reflexes have been getting better. while, sadly, wands reflex's are not as they once were. jardine has a good chance of beating silva. he has that awkward style mixed with a decent immitation of holland's style of kick boxing.
shogun's really been through two major injuries at such a young age. could be a factor if they fight again.
but a. silva and machida have the best chance of beating rampage imo. both for the same reasons. well roundedness plus a excellent. power to speed ratio.[/quote]
I don't think he was gun shy in the 2nd fight, he even dropped Wand. That punch I displayed above made him gun shy. Shogun came ou tand hit him with a hard 1-2 within seconds of the fight and forced him to play defense. Great strategy. I agree with everything else you said, good post.
Sorry for posting so much on the thread, I just couldn't believe Rampage's comments, even coming from him
Last edited by Ramma; 03-28-2008 at 07:14 AM.
Reason: Double Post as well...
I don't think he was gun shy in the 2nd fight, he even dropped Wand. That punch I displayed above made him gun shy. Shogun came ou tand hit him with a hard 1-2 within seconds of the fight and forced him to play defense. Great strategy. I agree with everything else you said, good post.[/quote]
he had a good chance of winning but the time ran out. besides that, the first round was pretty close. rampage totally changed during the break because he was done with. rampage dug deep for that takedown. and silva pushed him off a way too easy.
shogun did destroy him. but rampage wasnt aggersive enough to react first. he would of had a better chance. plus it would made it more of a fight, than just a beating. and a better chance of not getting his rib broken.
I actually agree with him on the PRIDE part... Pride was corrupt with the Japanese Mafia, thats a known, so why wouldn't there be thrown fights or Refs not being legit?
I think it's funny that Jackson is the only one talking shit about corruption. There must be a Brazilian/Japanese/Axis of Evil cover-up going on. I'm glad he was able to uncover it for the rest of us clueless individuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriangleChoke
the refs stood them up in the first fight when rampage was ground and pounding...b.s. stand up imo
I didn't think he was doing much gnp, but I'm glad that bullshit standups would never happen in the UFC. Or at least not recently. Because the GG/CC standup was totally warrented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145
Have you forgotten that Hendo knocked Wand completely the fuck out while Rampage went toe to toe with him and won?
Also, yes Rampage has been thrown a few cans just like Wand has but Rampage has been more impressive against stiffer competition IMO. Who's the last top 10 LHW Wand has beaten besides Rampage? I can't think of any, but Rampage has beaten Lindland, Chuck Liddell, and Hendo. 2 of whom beat Wandy BTW.
Lol, maybe his "change so much" comes from the fact that he's been winning while Wand has been getting his ass whipped every chance he gets.
I'm a huge Henderson fan, but Wandi was horribly sick for that fight...and Hendo took Jackson to a decision, one that in my mind he won.
Wand when did Lindland [who took Jackson to another controversial--and split--decision] become a top 10 LHW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dork8503
So does that mean Anderson can beat Rampage.
MMA math aside, I think Anderson would beat him 7 out of 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmhmm
Thought I'd add this for Harlem, my way of saying goodbye to this thread...
Linear Mode
