Gary Shaw: UFC Title-Holders Are “Club Champs”

[YukonJordan]

Originally Posted by sandywh

So you think BJ Penn would make quick work of these guys?


I've posted about this several times. UFC offered Luigi Fioravanti more money and a longer contract around the same time they offered Jake one just before he signed with Elite XC. This last time around wasn't much better. The last deal was 3 fights (garunteed, UFC option on 4th) for roughly $15k per plus win bonus. Then EXC offered at minimum 6 fights at $40K+. Jake made the right decision. Yeah they don't have the talent, but with the money he was offered by Zuffa, he would have fought out the contract on the undercard.
Add all that together with Dana's continued description of EXC's fighters as rejects and guys that couldn't cut in the UFC, and there is no way he would have promoted Shields.

Like I originally posted....UFC's depth is undeniable, but to pretend like there aren't comparable fighters out there is insane. Yes UFC has the best from top to bottom, but there are still a lot of Elite fighters not on Zuffa contracts that would contend for UFC titles.

You can deny Shields his due all day, but sooner or later that division is going to go through him if anyone wants to be considered the undisputed #1 WW in the world.

I don't doubt Shields made the best decision financially. For now. There's no way you'll find me arguing otherwise. If Shields put up 2 straight exciting fights he'd be on the main card and being promoted big time by Zuffa. But there's no guarantee that he would have had two exciting fights. To say that Dana wouldn't promote him is silly, Dana's calling card is promoting/hyping fighters. Unfortunately part of that formula is ripping non-UFC fighters.

Shields record(especially of late) is fantastic but his competition in EliteXC isn't up to level that the UFC has and at some point you have to factor that into his ranking. I try to follow as much MMA as I can but when I look at Shields' resume there's only really 2 guys that jump out at me. Condit and Okami. Other than that there's not a lot of comparison to the record of GSP. Of course that has alot to do with the UFC getting way more exposure but again at some point the fighters you've beaten have to have some name value before they can be considered big enough wins to propel you into the top 5.

I would argue the opposite point. Shields needs to go through the UFC's WW division to be considered #1. Those guys are fighting top 10 talent consistently. Until then he's on the outside looking in. He's an immensely talented fighter that isn't fighting the caliber of opponents that he needs to in order to be looked in the top 5.

[Kansas]

Dana has really created a dynamic where he does not have all of the top talent out there, but he has enough of the top talent pooled in the UFC that he can control top ten rankings by limiting the opportunities for fighters outside the UFC tofight the people they need to to get on the list. They may or may not be better fighters but know one will ever know becuase of their lack of access to other high quality fighters.

I was thinking that a good way to do this would be to start a company that set up cross promotions. Shaw calls it a brand name, i like that. Lets have a "taste test" company. When Coke goes up against pepsi they hire an outside company to do the test right? That helps to keep things honest and to minimize problems. So why not have a company with its own octagon. Have an M-1 vs EliteXC tourney. Get all of these smaller outfits into tournaments this way then no one has to go out of business and all of the other orgs have a way to directly challenge the UFC's claims. Think of it as being comparable to the United States (UFC) making superpower claims and the European Union (All other orgs) becoming a veritable force because they have poooled their resources.

A sort of United League of MMA. Then M-1 is a club like the Yankees.

All orgs could then do their own promotions freely but as an org they could also commit to present a top five LHW for a league promo for example.

[Legend]

In theory he has a good point. However, with the UFC having so many of the world's best under contract in each weight class that takes a great deal of air out of his argument. I mean implying the UFC HW title is not a real world title bc they won't fight Kimbo is retarded.

[Kansas]

Originally Posted by thelegendrvb

In theory he has a good point. However, with the UFC having so many of the world's best under contract in each weight class that takes a great deal of air out of his argument. I mean implying the UFC HW title is not a real world title bc they won't fight Kimbo is retarded.

Your right about that but if you go back to my idea then his point might be worth a damn. Plenty of HW fighter outisde of the UFC that are comeptitive for the #1 spot.

[Robthom]

Originally Posted by ArMnHC

.... why doesnt he establish champions in all his weight classes before he even thinks of trying to compete against UFC fighters....

For real! He should be pointing more than a 22 before he starts making threats against a 45!

Originally Posted by Palma

I agree with what you are saying, but it is mostly because the UFC has monopolized all the talent...

Weasel word! UFC has gained most of the major talent!
UFC has established itself as the "Big leagues" compared to any other MMA Org through mostly shrewd and monetarily sound negotiation. Although the major exception seems to be the Pride deal that was mostly a stinker except for fanboy matches that prideboys bitch about anyway.

[sandywh]

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

Shields record(especially of late) is fantastic but his competition in EliteXC isn't up to level that the UFC has and at some point you have to factor that into his ranking. I try to follow as much MMA as I can but when I look at Shields' resume there's only really 2 guys that jump out at me. Condit and Okami. Other than that there's not a lot of comparison to the record of GSP. Of course that has alot to do with the UFC getting way more exposure but again at some point the fighters you've beaten have to have some name value before they can be considered big enough wins to propel you into the top 5.

lol

Yeah, noone's ever heard of Sakurai or Kikuchi? Dave Menne is a former UFC champ. Charuto once fought for a UFC title. Mike Pyle would easily be a top 10 UFC WW.

Who would be a named opponent? Josh Burkman? Jorge Gurgel?

[Bullock]

Gary Shaw has said some retarded things lately.

Sandy, Charuto never fought for a UFC title.... Pyle would not be a top ten UFC WW either.

[sandywh]

Originally Posted by Bullock

Gary Shaw has said some retarded things lately.

Sandy, Charuto never fought for a UFC title.... Pyle would not be a top ten UFC WW either.

You're right. Charuto fought Hughes after he beat Carlos Newton, and BJ Penn had just beaten Hughes. It was duri ghtat crazy messed issue. I stand corrected.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Robthom

Weasel word! UFC has gained most of the major talent!
UFC has established itself as the "Big leagues" compared to any other MMA Org through mostly shrewd and monetarily sound negotiation. Although the major exception seems to be the Pride deal that was mostly a stinker except for fanboy matches that prideboys bitch about anyway.

Fanboy Words! Gained through mostly shrewd and moetarily sound negotiation? Like creating lawsuits against your competitors just to throw mud in the wheel or like how the have ultra manipulative contracts for fighters especially if they win?

The UFC is what it is because they were the first... there is nothing more to it then that.

[YukonJordan]

Originally Posted by sandywh

lol

Yeah, noone's ever heard of Sakurai or Kikuchi? Dave Menne is a former UFC champ. Charuto once fought for a UFC title. Mike Pyle would easily be a top 10 UFC WW.

Who would be a named opponent? Josh Burkman? Jorge Gurgel?

Of course people have heard of them but you're not really going to hinge your argument on them are you? Quality fighters but not top 10 and certainly not anywhere close to being household names.