Gary Shaw: UFC Title-Holders Are “Club Champs”

[sandywh]

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

145- Don't know if anyone else has any well known 145lbers but I doubt they could beat Faber.

155- Soon to be champ Penn is hands down the most talented.

170- GSP, enough said. If you think Shields could beat him give your head a shake. The guy took the paper championship instead of fighting in the UFC when he had the chance.

185- Silva. Franklin would destroy Lawler almost as bad as Silva dispatched him. Putting Anderson Silva in the same ring as Robbie Lawler is bordering on criminal.

205-Rampage, Silva, Griffin, Jardine, Ortiz, Rua, Liddell. Nobody from the outside is touching this division.

205+ -Fedor is the only non-UFC fighter who can challenge for the top in a UFC division. Sadly he's too busy fighting guys with 45 chromosomes and being led around airports like gradeschooler.

155 - Gomi, JZ, El Nino, shaolin just to name a few that would give any UFC LW all they could handle

170 - Still, you people think Shields is ducking the UFC. Judging from the offer Dana gave him, the UFC is ducking him. Jake is the #1 WW in the world not in UFC and IMO would embarass GSP.

185 - Outside of Anderson Silva & Hendo, there is Shamrock, Le, and Lindland all are better than any other UFC fighter

205+ - Antonio Silva is as good as any current UFC fight not named Nogueira. And Fedor is still out there.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by Palma

I agree with what you are saying, but it is mostly because the UFC has monopolized all the talent. And when they don't sign someone good they get the fans to turn on them like this is Pro-wrestling.

I think Fedor is the perfect example of a cross-promotion fight that would bring in more money for the UFC (even if they are splitting the profit with M1) then if they didn't do it at all.

As talent spreads throughout the different orgs over next few years, cross-promotion fights are going to be come more and more common until they eventually become the norm.

I don't see why they wouldn't do a fight with Fedor as long as Fedor came to fight in the cage.

I mean they did it with K-1 in the Gracie Hughes fight.

As of right now the only win situation for the UFC regarding a cross promo fight is with Fedor, anyone else imo is not worth their time.

And Sandy I really disagree with your Antonio Silva comment. He is good but he would get beat by a good handful of UFC fighters. I just think the guy is to freaking slow. Way way to slow, sure if he gets on you then he most likely is going to hurt you but standing the guy is just terribly slow. Tim is fast compared to him lol.

and Shields is only better at bjj then GSP. GSP is a better striker, imo faster hands, better wrestling. Better take down d. GSP could keep the fight standing the entire time and win.

I think Shields could deff beat GSP on the ground but GSP is good enough to keep it standing.

and by the way Penn is the best at 155 and 170 so there lol. Penn beats Shields.

Hendo and Anderson are the best in the world. Anderson lacks the wrestling but Hendo can beat them all. He is better then Lindland, Shamrock and Cung.

And only person i see outside of UFC that could come in an take the mw belt is Lindland, and everyone knows i hate Lindland so its not like i am shitting on Frank or Cung.

[YukonJordan]

Originally Posted by sandywh

155 - Gomi, JZ, El Nino, shaolin just to name a few that would give any UFC LW all they could handle

170 - Still, you people think Shields is ducking the UFC. Judging from the offer Dana gave him, the UFC is ducking him. Jake is the #1 WW in the world not in UFC and IMO would embarass GSP.

185 - Outside of Anderson Silva & Hendo, there is Shamrock, Le, and Lindland all are better than any other UFC fighter

205+ - Antonio Silva is as good as any current UFC fight not named Nogueira. And Fedor is still out there.

I'd have to see it before I believed any of those guys could give BJ all he could handle.

Yes I do think Shields is ducking the UFC. Four fights could easily establish him as the #1 contender for the WW belt. Instead he's fighting considerably lesser skilled opponents than the potential matchups he'd have in the UFC. And why would Dana duck a phenomenal fighter, history has shown he's all about stockpiling talent.

185- I think we can take Shamrock out of the equation as we know he is never ever working with Dana again. Cung Le has shown me no ground game so far. I'll give you Lindland but Anderson Silva hasn't shown enough chinks in the armor to make me think Lindland wouldn't be a longshot.

205+ - Silva has a great record so far but he hasn't fought any elite fighters. Not enough to compare him to Arlovski, Werdum, Gonzago, Vera, Sylvia(I can't believe I just typed that). And I did mention Fedor.

At least you manned up and responded, another person who posts here ALOT and loves Shields decided I was fighter bashing and have me some reg rep. LOL

[twankydawg]

Shaw is funny, Dana should come out and Big Bank him and say he'll do it, but for a $25 million purse, not $1 million, at that point Gary Shaw would STFU. I think it's comical how everyone is arguing how most of the top talent is in the UFC and yet they are the bad guys here. Get real, Zuffa has paid their dues, lost alot of money, and never had help from anyone. Why would they recognize any other org until they at least can do what the UFC is doing? From a business standpoint, why would you help advertise your competition to your captive audience, anyone with any business sense would know better.

Shaw would happily pay $1 million to get the kind of coverage they would get if they worked with the UFC, he dreams of that shit, and unless Dana has become a moron overnight, he's not going to fall for that shit. Wouldn't matter if all his guys lost, it would put Elite on the map, and why would Zuffa contribute to that?

As a fan I'd love to see it but I'm not naive enough to believe it will happen anytime soon.

[peno]

If Gary wants the mma world to take him seriously don't lump Kimbo in with your top fighters. He may be world champ someday, who knows? But right now he's still in the freak show catagory. Jake, Robbie and Nick? Thats a different story.

[kylewyzle2005]

elite xc's best fighters would get there asses handed to em... the only chance they would come close with is frank vs anderson..... but i still couldnt see frank winning. but, that would be cool if perhaps elitexc and wec's beltholders could fight ours(ufc) but it still wouldnt be much competition. it would draw more fans. i could MAYBE see Urijah Faber winning though

[sandywh]

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

I'd have to see it before I believed any of those guys could give BJ all he could handle.

So you think BJ Penn would make quick work of these guys?

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

Yes I do think Shields is ducking the UFC. Four fights could easily establish him as the #1 contender for the WW belt. Instead he's fighting considerably lesser skilled opponents than the potential matchups he'd have in the UFC. And why would Dana duck a phenomenal fighter, history has shown he's all about stockpiling talent.

I've posted about this several times. UFC offered Luigi Fioravanti more money and a longer contract around the same time they offered Jake one just before he signed with Elite XC. This last time around wasn't much better. The last deal was 3 fights (garunteed, UFC option on 4th) for roughly $15k per plus win bonus. Then EXC offered at minimum 6 fights at $40K+. Jake made the right decision. Yeah they don't have the talent, but with the money he was offered by Zuffa, he would have fought out the contract on the undercard.
Add all that together with Dana's continued description of EXC's fighters as rejects and guys that couldn't cut in the UFC, and there is no way he would have promoted Shields.

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

185- I think we can take Shamrock out of the equation as we know he is never ever working with Dana again. Cung Le has shown me no ground game so far. I'll give you Lindland but Anderson Silva hasn't shown enough chinks in the armor to make me think Lindland wouldn't be a longshot.

205+ - Silva has a great record so far but he hasn't fought any elite fighters. Not enough to compare him to Arlovski, Werdum, Gonzago, Vera, Sylvia(I can't believe I just typed that). And I did mention Fedor.

At least you manned up and responded, another person who posts here ALOT and loves Shields decided I was fighter bashing and have me some reg rep. LOL

Like I originally posted....UFC's depth is undeniable, but to pretend like there aren't comparable fighters out there is insane. Yes UFC has the best from top to bottom, but there are still a lot of Elite fighters not on Zuffa contracts that would contend for UFC titles.

You can deny Shields his due all day, but sooner or later that division is going to go through him if anyone wants to be considered the undisputed #1 WW in the world.

[leelandk]

Originally Posted by Palma

How is it inferior? Because it isn't called "the UFC"?

They are a new org and they already have a MW division that is comporable to the UFC's. Imagine where they will be at this pace in 10 years from now.

It is inferior because the product is not as good. PPV revenues, gate revenues, news coverage, production value, and popularity amongst fans easily prove this point.

I guess you are right though, their MW division is comparable to the UFC's. Only problem is, when I compare the Elite XC MW division to the UFC's, the UFC has much better fighters and a much deeper talent pool than Elite XC. It may be comparable, but its a one sided comparison.

[smoogy]

lol @ Jake Shields "ducking" the UFC. Someone people are just clueless.

[thumper]

This seems pretty obvious to me. Why wouldn't elite want to bring this rift up and set some stupid challenge in the public? EVERYONE wants a piece of the UFC. Any other org out there would cream their shorts to co sponsor an event with the UFC. But what reaason do Zuffa have to compete with lesser organizations? There's no win in that at all and there's no way this kind of thing could ever happen until one of the other orgs can get as big and as highly profitable as them. It makes sense they'd all want it.

now, moving forward? Dana causes the UFC black eyes all the time and his mouth overloads his ass on a daily basis. He says shit that's inherently untrue, brags about things that aren't true, and basically promises things he can't produce.....often. But he sure isn't in a position to make less money promoting an event when the UFC can have the entire thing all to themselves and make twice the gross any cross promo could produce.

I just can't see why this is so hard to understand. of course Gary says this shit. I'm pretty sure the WNBA would claim they could beat any NBA team too if they thought they'd make it to a top shelf promotion.