Lennox Lewis - Why is he so overlooked?

[Luis Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jones

That'd be excellent. Whether he agrees or disagrees with me, it's a good chance for me to get some details from a man who played a big role in helping guide Lewis to the championship. He deserves much credit for his role. It's ignorant and I'll admit 'stupid' of me that I didn't take enough interest to know his name. Seeing as how instrumental he was in Lewis' success, I figured he would've gotten more attention. But then again, nobody in a camp gets attention outside of the head trainer. That man being Manny Steward whom I respect alot for what he's done in the sport. I guess the one positive about Lewis is he kept good people around him in his corner. I missed my chance in meeting Lewis when he came up here in Castlemore in 99. His mother lived here for a time, and Lewis used this area as his hangout for a short spell. He lived 25 minutes walking distance from me. I was up in Brampton, he was up in Castlemore. So from my house, I'd probably go down North Park drive, take a left on Torbram, and go straight. 6 minutes away by car. I met George Chuvalo though briefly. He went school to school deliering speeches on drug awareness. His personal story is definitely one to know.

Now there's one thing i will openly admit, i never took an interest in his personal dealings like what he did outside the ring. That could definately change my take on him as A PERSON not fighter. If he was the kind of person who really want out of his way to help others, that means more to me in sports than their performance, i've preached that a lot of forums. Someone could be the greatest fighter in the world (Fedor) and not give two shits about anyone else and people will still love them. I won't, i think what they do outside is more important, like Rivera who just fought, great guy. Oh and i wasn't saying Fedor is that type of person i was just using him as a high caliber of an opponent. So if Lewis was that type of guy i'll have gained a lot more respect for him, but the thing that REALLY turned me off about him was the time he claimed to be the greatest Heavyweight of all time, i forgot what fight it was after, but that really got to me. Just like Floyd saying he's the greatest ever, even more so than both Sugar Rays, that's just disrespectful. Lewis didn't say all that but just calling himself the greatest ever was enough for me to tune him out.

Without Manny i don't think people would've even remembered Lewis, he was that much of an impact on him. Manny still as his gym 45 mins from me so i'm sure i'll be taking a trip up there if Harold can make it happen.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

Now there's one thing i will openly admit, i never took an interest in his personal dealings like what he did outside the ring. That could definately change my take on him as A PERSON not fighter. If he was the kind of person who really want out of his way to help others, that means more to me in sports than their performance, i've preached that a lot of forums. Someone could be the greatest fighter in the world (Fedor) and not give two shits about anyone else and people will still love them. I won't, i think what they do outside is more important, like Rivera who just fought, great guy. Oh and i wasn't saying Fedor is that type of person i was just using him as a high caliber of an opponent. So if Lewis was that type of guy i'll have gained a lot more respect for him, but the thing that REALLY turned me off about him was the time he claimed to be the greatest Heavyweight of all time, i forgot what fight it was after, but that really got to me. Just like Floyd saying he's the greatest ever, even more so than both Sugar Rays, that's just disrespectful. Lewis didn't say all that but just calling himself the greatest ever was enough for me to tune him out.

Without Manny i don't think people would've even remembered Lewis, he was that much of an impact on him. Manny still as his gym 45 mins from me so i'm sure i'll be taking a trip up there if Harold can make it happen.

I agree 100%. As you already know, I did have an appreciation for Lewis' boxing talent but he did have this bit of cockiness which was plainly visible, even to me. He did say some silly things and I definitely disagree with him if he feels he was the greatest of all time. Although it would be hard to fathom if he truly believed that considering how highly he praises men like Larry Holmes and his idol Muhammad Ali. Lewis ranked somewhere in the top 12, in the latter half. I never believed nor would I believe that he could ever beat a prime Larry Holmes or Ali over 15 rounds. I don't think he could've beaten quite a few heavyweights although I could give him a decent chance against a lot of them, but I'd make him the underdog.
Like I said, I did appreciate his skills and I watched almost all of his fights live on tv. And I did see a tremendous transition between the Lewis under trainer Pepe Correa and the Lewis under Steward. Without Steward, Lewis probably wouldn't have amounted to much, but I guess that's one for another debate. He did already show brutalizing power when he took Ruddock apart in 2 rounds so the power was always there. I think Manny can take Wladimir Klitschko all the way too depending on if Wlad has the desire. It's amazing how similar Lewis and Wladimir are in terms of their careers. Both Olympic gold medalists, both changing to Steward after bad defeats which were scored in 2nd round TKOs respectively(McCall and Sanders). Steward found great success with Lewis and he can do the same with Wlad I think.
As for Manny's gym, he lost Kronk didn't he and had to relocate? Too bad, Kronk really brought up some great fighter.

[Luis Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jones

I agree 100%. As you already know, I did have an appreciation for Lewis' boxing talent but he did have this bit of cockiness which was plainly visible, even to me. He did say some silly things and I definitely disagree with him if he feels he was the greatest of all time. Although it would be hard to fathom if he truly believed that considering how highly he praises men like Larry Holmes and his idol Muhammad Ali. Lewis ranked somewhere in the top 12, in the latter half. I never believed nor would I believe that he could ever beat a prime Larry Holmes or Ali over 15 rounds. I don't think he could've beaten quite a few heavyweights although I could give him a decent chance against a lot of them, but I'd make him the underdog.
Like I said, I did appreciate his skills and I watched almost all of his fights live on tv. And I did see a tremendous transition between the Lewis under trainer Pepe Correa and the Lewis under Steward. Without Steward, Lewis probably wouldn't have amounted to much, but I guess that's one for another debate. He did already show brutalizing power when he took Ruddock apart in 2 rounds so the power was always there. I think Manny can take Wladimir Klitschko all the way too depending on if Wlad has the desire. It's amazing how similar Lewis and Wladimir are in terms of their careers. Both Olympic gold medalists, both changing to Steward after bad defeats which were scored in 2nd round TKOs respectively(McCall and Sanders). Steward found great success with Lewis and he can do the same with Wlad I think.
As for Manny's gym, he lost Kronk didn't he and had to relocate? Too bad, Kronk really brought up some great fighter.

Nope he stills brings Wlad there to train at times.

[kickbox]

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

I agree with everything you said but the point of my earlier post was because of what you said, he didn't take on formidable opponents until they past their prime, a bunch of them. He was around when all these guys were in their prime, he was just tucked away safely staying away letting them fight each other while he padded his record in his country. He really wasn't that great of a fighter. Him and Bowe i believe started their careers around the same time so there's no excuse for him to wait so long to fight Holyfield. I think Holyfield would've beat him 5 out of 5 times if they fought when Holyfield was in his prime. He struggled against him twice and that was a Holyfield starting his decline, not as bad as today obviously but he wasn't in his prime for about 4 years, maybe 5.

Tyson beat washed up boxers out of their primes just to let you know.he beat shannon briggs Vitali all the good fighters.

[Harlem]

Originally Posted by kickbox

Tyson beat washed up boxers out of their primes just to let you know.he beat shannon briggs Vitali all the good fighters.

Why do you keep Tyson bashing? Tyson may have fought one or two Boxers out of their prime but you don't know what the fuck your talking about. Prime Tyson beat Prime fighters for their title. The only old fighter Tyson has fought that I can think of was Larry Holmes. Please stop saying dumb shit when you don't know what your talking about. You weren't even born when Tyson was in his Prime.

[kickbox]

Originally Posted by harlemhustla145

Why do you keep Tyson bashing? Tyson may have fought one or two Boxers out of their prime but you don't know what the fuck your talking about. Prime Tyson beat Prime fighters for their title. The only old fighter Tyson has fought that I can think of was Larry Holmes. Please stop saying dumb shit when you don't know what your talking about. You weren't even born when Tyson was in his Prime.

so you guys can say Tyson was out of his prime when he lost to Douglas and All the other fighters were in their prime when they lost to tyson?? wow just wow. My father was a boxing fan all his life dont argue with me cause my father knows these things. And lennox was out of his prime when he beat Tyson cause he only retired 3 years later so theres no excuse. Lennox beat fighters that would have sweeped the floor with Tysons era lmfao. so your argument is pointless. i just hate the facts everyone bashes on a foreign fighter like lennox but they never talk crapp about Tyson and hes overated!! Klitshcko would have been more of a challenge to Tyson if he fought him and probably would have beaten him too.

[Harlem]

Originally Posted by kickbox

so you guys can say Tyson was out of his prime when he lost to Douglas and All the other fighters were in their prime when they lost to tyson?? wow just wow. My father was a boxing fan all his life dont argue with me cause my father knows these things. And lennox was out of his prime when he beat Tyson cause he only retired 3 years later so theres no excuse. Lennox beat fighters that would have sweeped the floor with Tysons era lmfao. so your argument is pointless. i just hate the facts everyone bashes on a foreign fighter like lennox but they never talk crapp about Tyson and hes overated!! Klitshcko would have been more of a challenge to Tyson if he fought him and probably would have beaten him too.

First of all, no one ever said Tyson was not in his prime when he fought Douglas. IMO, the reason he lost to Douglas was because tons of problems outside the ring that didn't allow him to focus on Boxing at the time. The same thing happend to James Toney when he was at LHW.

BTW, your father could also be wrong, I argue with older men all the time.

IMO, Tyson was never the same after being in jail for 3 or 4 years. When I saw him Box upon his return, he just didn't have the head movement or the accuracy of the Tyson in the 80s.

BTW, you can make an argument for Lennox, or the Klitschko Bros. beating a Prime Tyson, but they also outweighed him by 40lbs. To say Tyson was overated in his prime is just ignorant and shows it was way!! before your time. Boxing historians don't claim Tyson as one of the P4P best HWs for no reason.

[halozero]

Originally Posted by Salvy_Mic

Wow, this thread went from vitriol to civility in no time. I'm almost impressed, hah....Anyway, keep this up guys, I've got a bag of popcorn here, and am thoroughly entertained

right? i am loving this.

Originally Posted by Jones

As for Lewis/Vitali, that was a good hard fought tough fight by both fighters....Lewis could've taken a rematch but chose not to.

yeah, i'm calling it now, obviously i'm not as knowledgeable in "the sweet science" as others, but that fight was not "hard fought" by both fighters. vitali was in control the whole time--lennox didn't exactly look like shit, but i think he was unprepared and outclassed. he got vitali's attention a few times, and you obviously don't open the kind of hatchet wound with a massage, but he never hurt him or put him in any real danger. vitali was like a freakin' machine.

i was a lewis fan until the aftermath of that fight. he showed very little respect for a fighter that clearly had more heart and drive. and then he RETIRED with his belt instead of losing it in a rematch to a man that was a better fighter at the time.

lewis punked out to keep a good record and avoid embarassment instead of losing the strap. and that is why he will NEVER break the top 20 in my book.

but hey, i'm just a fan and former fighter that couldn't hack it as a kickboxer, so what the fuck do i know?

[warrior06]

I cant say it better than HaloZero.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001853

http://www.boxrec.com/record000474.html

[Afro]

Halozero, Lewis didnt punk out.. he had bad management, and retiring with the belt is not something to frown upon.. care to emphasis more on that?

And what do you mean by he never hurt him or put him in danger?